Well, I guess hell just froze over-

[Redbird]

I've been dreading the cam removal, mostly due to the fact that the frame rail blocks looking at the cam sprockets on the right side.

I seriously considered dropping the motor. Decided not to as I had some free time today (3-6" of snow my ass) and was able to use a mirror to line everything up real nice. Putting it back together may be a different story, but that's a problem for down the road.

Progress-

I'm done for now. Awaiting the arrival of a new micrometer (because mine is shit and I deserve a new toy for doing all this work) and shims.

[Red J]

Doood. Some foo jacked ya cams!

[Involute]

I get butterfly's in my stomach just looking at your pics.

[Redbird]

You want butterflys?

Imagine that's your bike and some 19 year old making $8.50 an hour is going to put it back together.

Dealers scare me :wink:

[tomek]

Use fine sandpaper.

Use glass under the sandpaper.

+1

[Involute]

Imagine that's your bike and some 19 year old making $8.50 an hour is going to put it back together.

Does she have big tits?

[Redbird]

Yes, he does.

[Red J]

I never made 8.50/hr turning wrenches when I was 19...

[Redbird]

You probably didn't have big tits.

[Red J]

Good point.

I also worked at a shop which was probably the most honest on the planet, so no surplus money for me.

We had customers:

"I am Azim, from Saudi Arabia. I have a Porsche 911 which I would like serviced and inspected fully. I will pay your price. You see, I would like peace of mind that my car is in good condition, as I am traveling back home, never to return."

No shit, we would do exactly what he asked. Even though we'd never hear from him again. Not that I condone unethical behavior, but we always did the right thing, even if we lost money doing it. It's not that the owners of the shop were religious, they were some kinda granola-birkenstock-balanced-planet weirdos. They didn't eat meat. I mean, none. Fucking bizarre, I tell you.

[LongHaul]

I get butterfly's in my stomach just looking at your pics.

+1

This just may be past the limits of my wrenching skills.

Unless you do that write up with the big tit 19 yr old. Preferably a female.

[Redbird]

It's really not as bad as it looks. I've never done a shim under bucket valve ajustment before, but with a manual, the right tools and a small amount of common sense it's not that big of of a deal. It's one of those take your time, take notes and you'll do fine kinda things. It also helps that I'm in absolutely no hurry.

Still no progress (except pulling the radiator), but I did take a few more pics and host them for any who might be interested. I'll get more once I pull the buckets and ajust, and of the subsequent re-assembly and re-check of the clearance, but this is it for now- http://www.pbase.com/redbird1137/valve_ajustment

[willxx23]

Thats where I lost my socks :oops:

Give em a wash before you send them back to me.....

[SLY DVL]

Use fine sandpaper.

Use glass under the sandpaper.

+1

No no no! You guys are doing this the hard way...

Ya don't sand the shims, ya sand the cams, while they're still in the head!

Much easier.

Sheesh. Rookies...

Kev

[Hobicus]

In all seriousness, Tim:

Thanks for the pictures. This is one of those things that I usually pay a guy to do, at great expense. Still not sure if I'd feel comfortable doing it myself, but it helps.

Would love to come down and look over your shoulder during re-assembly.

[LongHaul]

In all seriousness, Tim:

Thanks for the pictures. This is one of those things that I usually pay a guy to do, at great expense. Still not sure if I'd feel comfortable doing it myself, but it helps

Yes, Tim, thanks for the pics. I'm gonna break out my manual and follow along. I just might do this myself, should Hell ever freeze over again, of course.

Thanks very much.

[Redbird]

Would love to come down and look over your shoulder during re-assembly.

I wouldn't have any problem with that, Rich, but the problem is how I work. It's usually in increments of anywhere from 10-30 minutes spead throughout the day/week/month, however it fits in. I don't think I've spent more that 30 minutes straight on it since I began, and probably not even that much.

So, if you wanna stop by Tuesday or Wednesday and hang out for a week or two, that oughta cover it. :wink:

I promise I'll take lots more pictures.

[shovelstrokeed]

This would be a great time to pick up a degree wheel and some slotted cam sprockets and degree your cams while you are at it.

There are numerous instructions for finding lobe centers on the web and it really isn't all that hard. Nice gains to be picked up in the mid range by spreading out the lobe centers a bit.

Check out Erion Racing or Muzzy performance for the sprockets. They usually come with instructions as well. Orient Express might be another good source.

Take your time, read the manual at least twice and get a good picture of what you are doing before applying the wrenches and all will be well.

Good Luck

[Redbird]

You're no doubt right, but while I feel up to the task of taking it apart and putting it back together, modifying the cam timing is a bit beyond my skillset at this point.

I'll order the slotted cams if you want to come over and give me a hand degreeing them

Take your time, read the manual at least twice and get a good picture of what you are doing before applying the wrenches and all will be well.

Well said, that's excellent advice no matter what you're doing

[airborneXX]

Or as my old QOTW said "Work yourself up a good dump and study"

Thanks Tim for posting this up. I've done the valves on my 900, but that doesn't require cam removal as it's shim over bucket.

[Pete in PA]

I degreed my cams in my V65 Sabre (twice as hard, 2 heads and 4 cams :shock: ) to 104 degrees and noticed........nothing. No change in low and midrange power which is what I was looking for.

Cam timing IS the big variable between 10 identical bikes picked off the showroom floor as far as power goes. No two will be set exactly the same, let alone where the factory intended.

As your bike gets mileage on it the cam chain stretches and your timing retards giving you more low rpm power and response with a barely detectable drop in top end.

I've noticed this on my XX but can't be sure it's not also my carb, exaust, etc, mods.

[Hobicus]

So, if you wanna stop by Tuesday or Wednesday and hang out for a week or two, that oughta cover it. :wink:

And eat Eva's cooking? Do you know how tempting that is? I bet she'd talk polish once in a while, too. Damn.

I could bring my boys down, they could pull the heads off of your daughter's Barbies (Ok, bad idea...:twisted:)

Just take pics, that will have to do. It will have to be some other time.

[sykotek-xx]

Screw degreeing the stockers, you got em out already, time for some race cams!

[mikesail]

Two comments on the valve clearance issue.

First is that the advice about sanding shims is dubious. Shims are surface hardened, and this treatment does not go very far into the metal. It is crucial to have the proper hardening else the valve will punch a divot into the bottom of the shim.

Secondly, any clearance of less than .001" is hard to improve upon. you will find that the shims vary by quite a bit when you measure a few that are labeled as identical. If you've got all winter and a shop that will let you trade shims till you get exactly what you want then you might achieve "perfection".

As to the carbon buildup changing the clearance, that is hogwash. The clearance changes because the sealing surface wears on both the valve and the valve seat. That is why valves get tighter over time. They get looser when the cam lobe and/or cam follower starts to lose material from wear.

Loose valves clack and change timing which slightly affects engine power. Its not the worst thing in the world.

Tight valves get tighter as the engine heats and the valve shaft expands. This is why the hot and cold numbers are different.if the clearance gets to be too small them the valve will not seal and this is when you get a burned valve.

If you really care to have the valves right then the hot number is the only one that counts. The cold number is there to get you close.

Mike

[Redbird]

Secondly, any clearance of less than .001" is hard to improve upon. you will find that the shims vary by quite a bit when you measure a few that are labeled as identical. If you've got all winter and a shop that will let you trade shims till you get exactly what you want then you might achieve "perfection".

Clearance wasn't less than .001, that's just how far they were out of spec, which is a .002 range, so I was looking at a .002 correction. You're right about the shims not all measuring as labeled, which is why I measured them all rather than attempt to correct "blindly" by just replacing them based on labeled thickness. With the shims J (thanks, you stud) sent me and rearranging what was in the bike I've gotten as close to perfection as I'm going to. Haven't re-installed the cams and re-checked clearance yet, so that's still theory.

As to the carbon buildup changing the clearance, that is hogwash. The clearance changes because the sealing surface wears on both the valve and the valve seat. That is why valves get tighter over time. They get looser when the cam lobe and/or cam follower starts to lose material from wear.

What would the result of carbon buildup on the valves and seats be, then? I'm not saying that's the only way they'd go loose, but it's my understanding that it can happen, you're saying it can't? Not being argumentitive, just looking for clarification, I'm hardly an expert when it comes to this stuff, just a guy with some feeler gauges and a micrometer :wink: