Red J Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 First is that the advice about sanding shims is dubious. Shims are surface hardened, and this treatment does not go very far into the metal. It is crucial to have the proper hardening else the valve will punch a divot into the bottom of the shim. Source to verify shim surface hardening, please? Some shims are through hardened, because of their thickness being not-so-thick. Certainly willing to be proven wrong. I have heard it both ways. I've ground shims in other engines before, but not my Blackbird's. In fact, if Redbird can send me a few of the most abundant sizes, I will grind one in half and have them tested for hardness both at the surface and at the core. Unless I can be supplied proof. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesail Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 Redbird, the deal is that the carbon is everywhere except where the valve seats. If there was carbon on the seat, it could not seal and you would have a big problem. I have heard old-timers talk about a chunk of carbon getting stuck in a valve seat, but I think that is more of a urban legend. After a valve burns you will see lots of carbon around the gap. The actual valve seat will ALWAYS be clean in a working valve. All the varnish and gunk is just on the stem. It might hurt the air flow when it gets bad, but it won't change the clearance. yea, I meant .001 as the accuracy, not the actual clearance. J., I admit I've not analyzed shim material. I did spend quite some time with shims from a lotus 907 and saw the issues I discussed. My understanding is that for the extremely high hardness needed you can only get a surface hardening, otherwise the shim would be too brittle. But I don't really know facts here. :oops: Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 J., I admit I've not analyzed shim material. I did spend quite some time with shims from a lotus 907 and saw the issues I discussed. My understanding is that for the extremely high hardness needed you can only get a surface hardening, otherwise the shim would be too brittle. But I don't really know facts here. :oops: Mike I did some more reading on surface hardening, and it appears you may be correct, the only way I know is to check it with a hardness tester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matey_peeps Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 J., I admit I've not analyzed shim material. I did spend quite some time with shims from a lotus 907 and saw the issues I discussed. My understanding is that for the extremely high hardness needed you can only get a surface hardening, otherwise the shim would be too brittle. But I don't really know facts here. :oops: Mike I did some more reading on surface hardening, and it appears you may be correct, the only way I know is to check it with a hardness tester. Or with a big fucking hammer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted December 21, 2005 Author Share Posted December 21, 2005 All done, came out beautifully, all valves are now all slightly on the loose side of spec. I ended up ajusting all but three, as most were in spec but on the tight side. I'm hoping this will result in a simple check without ajustment next time. A few pics have been added to that album, there's more to go up, but I'll finish that later. As far as sanding the shims, I will report back on that next winter, as I did sand two of them a bit to get what I wanted. Given Mike's input, I wouldn't advise it, but I'm going to let them ride and check 'em next winter. Stay tuned......... Big thanks to Red J for starting the official CBR1100XX shim bank and his input behind the scenes- and everyone else who contributed in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02XXCA Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Did you lube the feeler gauge first? Coat it with WD-40 or oil first? And I always thought tight was better!!!! Maybe we can arrange a valve clearance Seminar at the 06 TBME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 I noticed in your pics that you marked the inside of the cam sprockets. Is this how you timed it or did you use a mirror like you mentioned? (that frame blockage problem) Also is it possible to ziptie the chain to all the sprockets and never loose the timing? Just glad I've never had to do more then measure. (yet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Did you lube the feeler gauge first? Coat it with WD-40 or oil first? And I always thought tight was better!!!! Maybe we can arrange a valve clearance Seminar at the 06 TBME. Most times, it's more likely for valves to tighten, as either the valve will wear itself into the seat, or the valve will tulip or stretch at the base of the valve stem. More clearance almost exclusively will result from camshaft or lifter (bucket) wear or some other factor where components are being failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted December 21, 2005 Author Share Posted December 21, 2005 I noticed in your pics that you marked the inside of the cam sprockets. Is this how you timed it or did you use a mirror like you mentioned? (that frame blockage problem)Also is it possible to ziptie the chain to all the sprockets and never loose the timing? Just glad I've never had to do more then measure. (yet) I used a mirror to line it up before I pulled them, and used the mirror again for a final check. The mark on the inside came in real handy when I was actually placing the cam. From the pbase gallery- It was impossible to see the alignment mark on the outside of the sprocket without a mirror. I don't have four hands, so I transfered the mark to the interior for initial alignment There's comments in the captions of a lot of the pics which may or my not be helpful. I plan putting up a few more photos and maybe expanding a bit on the captions. This will probably be a close to I get to any kind of instructions, more of an addition to the manual than anything else- it's not like I'm a profesional mechanic, after all. As far as zip tying the chain to the sprockets to retain timing, I doubt it'll work, though I didn't try. The chain is rigid enough and the space tight enough that I'd think it'd be pretty much impossible to get to the buckets closest to the sprockets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Tim, What is that aluminum deal that looks like 2 fingers attached to the end of the front camshaft by the sprocket?? Is that just part of the bike, or is it a "special tool"?? Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted December 21, 2005 Author Share Posted December 21, 2005 What is that aluminum deal that looks like 2 fingers attached to the end of the front camshaft by the sprocket?? Is that just part of the bike, or is it a "special tool"?? Cam pulse generator rotor (it's steel, BTW) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 ah... for FI cam position sensor... gotcha... I don't have one then... Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 ah... for FI cam position sensor... gotcha... I don't have one then...Thanks, Mike Correct, i believe that I've not seen one of those in the two 97 XX engines I've been into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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