Hairbear Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 HELP ME!!! This is an on going problem with my XX that is making me nuts. It stalls every so often..no matter how hard I run her. It always seems to happen when I'm coming to a stop and pulling in the clutch. When I turn the key to the run position the pump ONLY pressurizes for a split second...I know if this ocurs the bike will not start. If I hear the fuel pump pressurize for a few seconds then the bike will start no problem. Last night in the garage it finally happened..the bike wouldn't start...so I started checking some sensors and relays. SO FAR... The clutch switch has continuity The fuel pump relay has continuity I shorted out the connector and seen if any codes were displayed...NOTHING.., but I tried to erase any memory the computer had according to my FSM...the FI light didn't blink according to the FSM. This morning...I go out ready for work...I figured I'd try the bike....the FREAKIN pump pressurized...the bike started..the died within 5 seconds.. When I get home from work tonight..I'm going to rip the panels and tank off and dig in. Any ideas or thoughts on where to start..anyone have a similiar problem before?? Thank again. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted June 26, 2003 Share Posted June 26, 2003 Is the FI light on? The service manual includes a procedure to get the bike to give you a diagnostic code. That should tell you exactly what it thinks has failed. As far as the amount of time the pump runs--not relevant. Mine runs for a tiny fraction of a second, and the bike is fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairbear Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 Joe...I tried your suggestion when I got home tonight. No good..the fuel system still will not pressurize. Swampnut Is the FI light on? The service manual includes a procedure to get the bike to give you a diagnostic code. That should tell you exactly what it thinks has failed. I tried this according to the FSM...the light stayed on constant.meaning no problems according to the FSM. As far as the amount of time the pump runs--not relevant. I dont understand how you can say this. In a pressurized fuel injected engine...(regardless if its a bike or cage)a fuel system has to come up to its predetermined psi. before a engine will start. My pump will run for a split second(like the time it takes the headlight to come on...its like PSS! Thats it. When the bike operates correctly the pump will come up to pressure after something like 2 seconds..give or take..its sounds like PZZZZZZZZZZZ and then stops. Thanx guys for the ideas...I going to start ripping off the tank! THIS SUCKZ!! i missed a beautiful day in Pa. for a ride..and I'll probably miss more!!! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Sorry, I am on crack. I recently diagnosed a pump problem on a non-FI bike and got it confused with mine I guess. I just checked mine, and it runs for one second every time. Which tells me it is timed, not pressure-based. So your ECU is seeming suspicious to me. Hard to say. I think you might end up at the dealer for this one. Oh, and the ECU technically has a 5 year, 60k warranty since it is technically part of the emissions system. So sayeth federal law. However, I don't know if Honda buys into that. You might read up on the law and push it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairbear Posted June 27, 2003 Author Share Posted June 27, 2003 Thanx for the info on the ECM. I was on the bike on night...not on it the way I'd like to be%(&^$(. Now...I had a guess appearance by the one and only Joe rockmeupto125. 1-I checked all of the relays for cont. again..they are all fine. 2-I then checked for power at the pump connector.had slight voltage for a second...just as the FSM desrcibes 3-I pulled the fuel return line..capped it off..put a clear line from where the fuel return line was hooked upto a coffee can and turned the ignition on...The FSM states that the pump should cycle around 7oz. of fuel before timing out...I got only enough to match how much I can SPIT!..not good 4-Joe and I put voltage directly to the pump...it cycled fine.no problem 5-Tried checking the BANK ANGLE SENSOR as the FSM suggests.. When I tipped it either way the engine relay did not open..HMMMM! Could I have a faulty BAS??? Is it possible to jump it out and try it? 6-I've been having a REAL BITCH OF A TIME to get my ignition key to the ON position...I mean sometimes I'll be there for minutes trying to get it to turn..PISSES U OFF REALLY QUICK!! So I checked it for continuity according to the FSM.. It checked OK to! Now when I turn on the key I get nothing..the pump doesn't even cycle anymore. The only relay that clicks is the engine stop relay. I tried getting codes from the ECM...All I get is a steady FI light. ECM???? Ever hear one one going bad? The XX is a 99' w/8800 miles on her. Thats it I quit for the night. Thanx Tom Oh and Joe...Thanx a bunch for the lending hand....it was nice seeing you again! Maybe next time I'll be able to join you and your son!!Instead of having to sweat it off in the garage!!!!!lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 You've obviously checked the fuel pump relay, right? Try checking the relay for a good, solid 12v supply, and isolate the trigger wire. Check that wire for a signal from the ECU. If you're not getting a signal, then check the continuity of the wire between the relay and the ECU. If you're getting a signal, check the rest of the wiring at the fuel pump relay, and trigger the relay manually. If the bike starts fine with the relay triggered manually, and all the supplies are all right, then you need a fuel pump relay. You can even remove the cover from the relay, and check the contacts for corrosion/burning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mounty Posted June 27, 2003 Share Posted June 27, 2003 Did you check the fuel filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairbear Posted June 28, 2003 Author Share Posted June 28, 2003 You've obviously checked the fuel pump relay, right?Try checking the relay for a good, solid 12v supply, and isolate the trigger wire. Check that wire for a signal from the ECU. If you're not getting a signal, then check the continuity of the wire between the relay and the ECU. If you're getting a signal, check the rest of the wiring at the fuel pump relay, and trigger the relay manually. If the bike starts fine with the relay triggered manually, and all the supplies are all right, then you need a fuel pump relay. You can even remove the cover from the relay, and check the contacts for corrosion/burning. Chris..thanx for the suggestion, but all 3 relays check out fine for continuity.I even swapped all 3 around several times, just to make sure. All 3 relays made the headlight go on. On the engine stop relay..I have 12v. at the black coming form the key switch..thats fine. So looking at the wiring diagram..the fuel relay is in series with the engine stop relay and both rely on the BankAngleSensor. If the BAS puts out more than 1 volt according to the FSM on the Red/Or wire going to the engine stop relay...it will open the ESRelay(kill the motor) and then open the fuel relay shutting off the flow of gas. NOTE:: JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT IN THE FSM, THE BAS IS WRITTEN IN AS A "ENGINE STOP SENSOR" SO... I was just checking the BAS for voltage...here's what I have so far. 12Volts on the White..good accoding to the FSM in Sect:5-80 and 9volts give or take coming out on the Orange wire that goes to the ESRelay.(the FSM states that there should be less then 1 volt present when the BAS is level). So..So far I'm leaning to the BAS as being bad and I'm trying to figure out a way of just deleting it from the system. You guys more than likely have a FSM...so please give me your input. But..... up until sometime last night there was voltage present at the fuel pump...now nothing is getting past the ESR to the fuel cut relay. Thanx guys.. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted June 28, 2003 Share Posted June 28, 2003 Good troubleshooting work. Have you tried the secret, high-tech engineer's solution to component trouble on the BAS? Tools required: Large hammer Seriously, have you tried beating on it with a screwdriver handle while testing it? See if the VOM jumps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairbear Posted June 28, 2003 Author Share Posted June 28, 2003 Seeing that it probably couldn't hurt...I'll try the BFH tomorrow after work..I'm wiped after today. Not looking forward to my days off...I'll be in the garage or at the very least awaiting parts. The dealer isn't out the ? yet..I just can't fatom paying $55 an hour to a kid that isn't in any hurry. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted June 28, 2003 Share Posted June 28, 2003 And probably is a lot less smart, certainly is a lot less concerned about your bike than you are. So let's see, you will be applying the BFH to the BAS to see if the VOM indicates it is FUBAR. You will do this ASAP I assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairbear Posted June 28, 2003 Author Share Posted June 28, 2003 Swampnut...very witty..but you forgot I'm also looking the EAR and my EAR wouldn't have any problem except it keeps getting lip from the BAS :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairbear Posted June 29, 2003 Author Share Posted June 29, 2003 Tonights fight action...finally got the bike RUNNING it didn't kick my ass after all..it may just break my wallet though! Well after tearing out my hair trying to figure this out....I'm telling you the FREAKIN Ecm was playing tricks....everytime I'd check the R/Or coming from the BAS..i'd have 9v where I should have 0 to 1....then all of a sudden..there would be 0volts present...I was ready to kill. I kept thinking the BAS was bad. Well....a good friend came over to help..and after finally figuring out what powered what and how it worked we got the damn thing to run. Minus part of the ECM!! We ended up forcefully grounding the Br/Bl wire coming from the Fuel Cut relay and just taping it off coming out off the ECM. What I basically ended up doing was forcing the relay to close which in turn forces the fuel pump on. The bike will start no problems and runs great.....Now the consecunquences(spelling?). The only way to kill the fuel pump is with either the key or the kill switch. The bike will only start in neutral..no matter what.. the side stand could be down, clutch pulled in, in gear...all that doesn't matter,the bike "MUST" be in neutral. Now on Monday....I'm going to call American Honda and talk to them about the ECM and the Emissions Act that Swampnut made me aware of. The only problem I might have is that Pa. is "NOT YET" a state that checks for emissions. Hopefully this doesn't matter. After that I'll call the local dealers and see what they'll do if anything. Have to thank Northman....he did suggest forcing the fuel cut relay. i just was afraid not knowing the exact way the electricals worked. But in the end he was right! Another BEER for the Canandian at NEXXT2!! Joe..thanx for everything. NOW.....If Honda DOESN'T COVER THE ECM I'll be looking for a replacement..... DOES ANYONE HAVE OR NOW OF ONE THAT I CAN BUY? Ron Ayers lists a new one for around $500 (I think w/o checking) Thanx everyone for the help!! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairbear Posted July 2, 2003 Author Share Posted July 2, 2003 A BIG THANK YOU To Joe. I made the trek to his stomping grounds today(77miles one way and 92 miles back a different way) and swapped my ECM onto his bike. Needless to say...his bike was dead..would not start. I got caught in roadwork coming home and had to run at 45mph for approx.20miles. I did make up for it though after...I added a 1 in front of 45 for alittle while...Felt great to be on the bike again.... OH WHAT A FEELING!!!! I'm calling the local dealer tomorrow to start the ball rolling.. I'm praying to god tonight that they DON'T give me a hassle and just swap in a new ECM. yeah right! tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG BOY Posted July 8, 2003 Share Posted July 8, 2003 I THINK IT WAS JUST THE OPERATER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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