Blood sugar, diabetes, and low-carb

[SwampNut]

TJ, I figure you have some info on this since you seem to have all the carb-related info anybody could want...

Pretty much everybody in my family is diabetic. Just learned in the last few months that my mom has it, and may have just accidentally discovered that my dad does too. Uncles & aunts do, though not grandmother. Now, much of this I'm sure is partly due to all of them being overweight, but it was enough to worry me. I did have some diabetic symptoms anyway (though most went away on the low-carb diet).

So, I bought a blood sugar test kit, and on a cheat day stuck myself. 147 about 90 minutes after a meal with higher carbs than usual. Shit. That happened twice. Each time I also had my usual symptoms of eating carbs; drowsiness, thirs. However, yesterday I ate a decent amount of ice cream, and 90 minutes later was only 104. No sugar symptoms. Weird. My fasting level is around the 90's, perfectly normal.

So...any idea if eating low-carb then "shocks" the body into not being able to handle the carbs? Was it just a matter of my body not being ready? What's a decent way to get some accurate test results (don't say "doctor" because they have been totally useless so far on my sugar/tiredness issues). Besides, from what I can see, they don't do much more than what I can do at home. I need help interpreting the results, but two docs have been useless at that with my grandmother too.

[Mikey]

What your checking is the bodies reaction to carbs. I'm a diabetic and my diet is strickly carb counting. I take a package and look at the total carbs and calculate the insulin using this number.

If you use complex carbs, it takes longer for it to get into your system, and hence perhaps longer for your body to react to it. Or it reacts better because the digestion is slower...can't tell for sure. Simple carbs will zip into your body fairly quickly and cause your sugar to rise faster, but won't last as long as your insulin will take care of it quickly. So.... you'll probably find that when your sugar was high, you were eating complex, when it was low, you were using simple.

Does that help at all?

[SwampNut]

Interesting. I expected the spike more with the simple sugars. Would activity levels, or other things, cause the reaction to carbs to be different?

[SwampNut]

I'm trying to figure out two things. First, why I feel so crappy and tired when I eat "normally." I have lots of the diabetic symptoms. Second, why my blood sugar after eating is exactly the same as my mom's, who has diabetes. Resting sugar level is normal though.

The testing for diabetes seems dubious to me.

[spEEdfrEEk]

TJ' date=' I figure you have some info on this since you seem to have all the carb-related info anybody could want...[/quote']

Sure, fire away, I'll do my best!

Pretty much everybody in my family is diabetic.

That's very typical of hispanics. My hispanic grandfather had

been insulin dependent for 7 years before I put him on the

low-carb/hi-fat diet. Why? It has nothing to do with genetics

(which is what the medical industry would like you to believe).

It's due to the fact that hispanic diets are LOADED with simple

sugars served with very saturated fats. (refried beans,

rice + mole, etc. etc.)

Simple sugars send blood glucose levels through the roof, and

saturated fats blunt the insulin response. In short, your pancreas

has to work MUCH harder to drop blood glucose levels.

After any significant length of time (30-40 years, for example) the

pancreas becomes "tired" and fails to secrete good insulin.

It pumps out insulin, but the stuff is "less sensitive" and doesn't

lower glucose levels as much.. Soooo, the pancrease makes more,

which leads to more pancreatic fatigue, which leads to even

less sensitive insulin, etc. It's a viscious cycle. The net result is

a pancreas which can no longer lower your blood glucose.

(type II adult onset diabetes)

Now, much of this I'm sure is partly due to all of them being overweight, but it was enough to worry me.

This is another myth spread by the medical sector. The obesity

doesn't cause the diabetes, it's another side-effect of the high

sugar american diet. Eating too many starches/carbs not only

makes you fat, but also causes diabetes (as described above).

There are many type-II diabetics who are thin.. Obesity and

diabetes are only mildy related.

I did have some diabetic symptoms anyway (though most went away on the low-carb diet).

And it WILL go away forever. Like I said, the low-carb high

fat diet took my grandfather off the needle in 6 months. And he

had been using the syringe for about 7 years. If you stop

the carbs long enough, the pancrease can actually recover.

(YES, believe it..)

His pancrease actually produces usable insulin

again. However, if he goes off on a sugar binge, he can find

himself with high glucose readings after about a week or so.

So, I bought a blood sugar test kit, and on a cheat day

stuck myself. 147 about 90 minutes after a meal with higher

carbs than usual. Shit.

Your concern is misplaced.

1) High blood sugar readings after a meal is to be expected.

In fact, if you are ketogenic, your blood glucose usually has

to rise to 110 or so before your body even begins to pump out

insulin.

2) Testing yourself after a meal skews the result. To get an

accurate reading, you are supposed to test your blood sugar

in between meals (or after a few hour fast). If your fasted

blood glucose is over 150 or so, then you should be concerned.

Your best bet is to test yourself in the morning, after 8

hours of sleep and before a meal. If it reads high then

(greater than about 120-150) you are pre-diabetic.

3) You're low-carb, which is a CURE for type-II diabetes.

Even if you were a full-blown diabetic beforehand, you are

using the only viable treatment that works as a lifestyle..

Each time I also had my usual symptoms of eating carbs; drowsiness, thirs.

This is typical, and I've told you that just about every

low-carber goes through this when they carb load. (has to

do with a drastic shift in hormone makeup and a change

to brain metabolism)

However, yesterday I ate a decent amount of ice cream,

and 90 minutes later was only 104. No sugar symptoms. Weird.

Ice cream is a combination of sugars and saturated fats (cream).

Your blood sugar won't rise as high as fast because of it..

Remember, sugars increase insulin, but saturated fats slow

digestion. Eating fats lowers the "glycemic index" of the sugary

foods. In fact, I ALWAYS make sure that my "cheat meal" has

some kind of fats in it.. (usually do things like fried cheese,

stuffed jalapenos with cheese, etc.)

My fasting level is around the 90's, perfectly normal.

But of course! Mine is usally around 80..

So...any idea if eating low-carb then "shocks" the

body into not being able to handle the carbs?

Nope, in fact this invalid argument was one levied against

Atkins when he first presented his diet.. You know "low carb

_may_ cause the metabolic shutdown of the glucose

pathways, blah blah blah.." No matter how many times the

nay-sayers made this arguement, they were never able

to get it to stick. The research always showed the other

point.. Resting the pancrease only made it stronger!

(and it produced MORE sensitive insulin..)

Think about it this way, if staying low-carb could wreck

your ability to handle sugars, then the first time an

eskimo/inuit ate sugar he/she would croak! :shock: :grin:

Was it just a matter of my body not being ready?

Nope, just normal response..

What's a decent way to get some accurate test results (don't say "doctor" because they have been totally useless so far on my sugar/tiredness issues).

I never say doctor.. Why? they have no idea what they're doing

when it comes to diabetes. All they are interested in is making

money off of the cash-cow diabetic stuff.. Insulin, needles, etc.

They want to send their kids to college too, so don't expect them

to actually WANT to cure a diabetic..

My grandfather STILL receives needles in the mail from time to

time, despite the fact that he has told his doctors that he hasn't

needed a shot in YEARS! (he's a vet, so the hospital gets govt.

money every time he receives diabetic supplies.) :roll: :roll:

I need help interpreting the results, but two docs have been useless at that with my grandmother too.

Convince your family to live like you.. It will be hard, my grandfather

would have killed for a tortilla the first month or so, ha ha.

However, as you know, you lose the cravings over time. After

a few months, you can start cheating again occasionally.

My grandmother had never attempted the diet until recently.

She's Japanese (rice, rice, rice + rice). 3 months ago her cholesterol

hit 330! Her doctor was going to biopsy her and was talking

about bypass surgery, etc. etc. ($$$$ for them). She went into

panic, then allowed me to help her..

In 3 months, she's lost 18 lbs. Her triglycerides are 67, HDL is

95 and total serum is 250. Half way there already!! :grin:

It works..

:cool: TJ :cool:

[SwampNut]

That's very typical of hispanics.

Yeah, but remember I'm not a "real" hispanic. I'm whiter than you are...pure Spaniard. It think the hispanic/diabetes connection is from the American Indian mix, isn't it? I know they have huge diabetes problems themselves.

(refried beans, rice + mole, etc. etc.)

Never ate any of that stuff, but our diet does include a lot of carbs in the form of rice and black beans, yuca (a starchy root), and of course all the desserts. Funny thing though that we don't generally have fat issues though we eat fat like crazy. I mean...pork skin fried in pork fat should be a coronary in a bag.

(type II adult onset diabetes)

That's the first concise, understandable explanation I've ever seen.

Eating fats lowers the "glycemic index" of the sugary

foods.

Oh, shit, I remember and use what you told me about fried breaded foods all the time. For some reason I didn't connect the ice cream with that. Who'd have thought of ice cream as health food?? :grin:

then the first time an

eskimo/inuit ate sugar he/she would croak!

Never thought of that. That's right, they live a zero-carb diet through lack of availability. Is that culture/diet worth studying a bit?

Convince your family to live like you..

With my mom, it was easy. She immediately cut back on carbs when she found out about the diabetes (though it is apparently mild). This was before she knew what I was doing. Then I explained to her about ketosis and the value of not just cutting back, but going to near-zero. She's doing it, quite faithfully. Lost 20# right away (good for 5'2").

My uncle is a lost cause, but his wife is going that way. My dad makes fun of us low-carbers. He's never been diagnosed diabetic. On a lark, and kind of as a "control," we tested him one night to compare to ourselves. He was 187 after a meal. :shock: He does change habits when presented with necessity, and he quit smoking cold turkey, so he may be easy to change.

So if I properly get the gist of what you say... Even though 147 is outside the normal range of after-meal blood sugar, I shouldn't worry about it? The sugar symptoms I had before I started this diet though, aren't they some indicators? I mean, I always had sugar problems, but didn't know it until I cut them out.

[spEEdfrEEk]

Yeah' date=' but remember I'm not a "real" hispanic. I'm whiter than you are...pure Spaniard.[/quote']

My point is that diet, not genetics, is the key. You can

be as white as a sheet, but if ya eat saturated fats with simple

sugars all the time you'll be in for diabetes later in life..

It think the hispanic/diabetes connection is from the American Indian mix, isn't it? I know they have huge diabetes problems themselves.

Yep, because their diet consists entirely of deep fried starches..

our diet does include a lot of carbs in the form of rice and black beans, yuca (a starchy root), and of course all the desserts.

There's the root cause..

Funny thing though that we don't generally have fat issues though we eat fat like crazy. I mean...pork skin fried in pork fat should be a coronary in a bag.

But remember, the more fats you eat the better adapted your

body gets to handling them. You are at lowest risk for heart

disease when you are low carb. Also, as I mentioned earlier,

weight/body fat has little to do with diabetes. There are loads of

skinny type-II diabetics out there..

"poke skins is good", "desserts is bad" (in redneck)

That's the first concise, understandable explanation I've ever seen.

Glad I could help! :grin:

Oh, shit, I remember and use what you told me about fried breaded foods all the time. For some reason I didn't connect the ice cream with that.

Yep, it's the same thing. If you stay low carb most of the time,

then cheat with fatty carbs, you get virtually no insulin response

and can sometimes even stay ketogenic.

Who'd have thought of ice cream as health food?? :grin:

And fried shrimp, and stuffed jalepenos! (just remember the

moderation part, ha ha ha)

Never thought of that. That's right, they live a zero-carb diet through lack of availability. Is that culture/diet worth studying a bit?

It's been done several times. What you find is that the eskimo/inuit

are VERY healthy in their natural habitat but suffer tremendously

when they are exposed to high-sugar western foods. The rates of

obesity and diabetes are almost parallel to that experienced by

American hispanics. (uncanny, no? :grin: )

With my mom, it was easy. She immediately cut back on carbs when she found out about the diabetes (though it is apparently mild).

Then consider yourself lucky! Your mom will be around for a long

time :grin:

She's doing it, quite faithfully. Lost 20# right away (good for 5'2").

It works for everyone willing to dedicate themselves to it and

experiment to find out what variants work best for them.

My uncle is a lost cause, but his wife is going that way.

Keep trying, you'd be surprised how quickly someones mind can

change when they are told they are facing a bypass, etc..

My dad makes fun of us low-carbers. He's never been diagnosed diabetic. On a lark, and kind of as a "control," we tested him one night to compare to ourselves. He was 187 after a meal. :shock:

That's high, even after a meal. Check him when fasted. He

may be pre-diabetic.

He does change habits when presented with necessity, and he quit smoking cold turkey, so he may be easy to change.

Then I think you are sitting in good shape.. Smoking is much

tougher to kick than sugar :grin:

So if I properly get the gist of what you say... Even though 147 is outside the normal range of after-meal blood sugar, I shouldn't worry about it?

You got it.. If you start seeing 200's after fasting then you should

get concerned.. Won't happen though, not with you being as strict

with low-carb/high-fat as you have been..

The sugar symptoms I had before I started this diet though, aren't they some indicators? I mean, I always had sugar problems, but didn't know it until I cut them out.

Could have been beforehand. But remember, your lifestyle is

the only real cure for Diabetes.. :grin: Everyone, to a degree,

has difficulty with "sugar problems". We (humans) were simply

never designed to consume as many of them as we do these days..

:cool: TJ :cool:

[Lynx60]

Okay guys, enlighten me. You mention that "if ya eat saturated fats with simple sugars all the time you'll be in for diabetes later in life." In terms of what foods to eat, and what to avoid, could you please give me some guidelines. Also, I'm a little confused about the reference to rice. I always thought that rice, plain rice, was healthier for us. Lynx 60

[Lynx60]

Rockmeup: thanks for the info. I'm particulary interested in the pancreatic & diabetes issues, and from what you've guys have said here it all seems to make perfectly good sense. I'm also reading stuff on the web site one of your members mentioned: http://forum.lowcarber.org/

Overworking the pancreas seems to be a big problem today. And given the high amount of pancreatic cancer & other related problems, I'm definitely concerned about this.

Thanks to whoever started this thread. It's valuable information ... information we all need if we're going to live longer so we can ride more.

Shit, I hate getting old.

Lynx60

[SwampNut]

BTW, the sugar industry coalition announced last month that it will sue the WHO if they publish the new recommendations they have sitting on a shelf, because it includes a suggestion to seriously reduce sugar intake. The WHO has already seen the link between these problems, but the study and recommendations are shelved due to the political and legal pressures. The sugar industry says there is not enough evidence and promoting this would hurt their business.

:burn:

Lynx, when TJ gives an explanation like he has here, I find that it's a great answer I can use, unlike most other sources. I've taken his info to be able to do more research, and find everything to be perfectly accurate. If you're concerned about this, then just read his info a couple times and fully understand it. I don't recall you being around before, are you eating low carb yet, or just starting to think about it?

[Lynx60]

SwampNut & Rockmeup: No, I haven't been around this thread before. I have seen it several times, but I assumed it had something to do with boosting the horsepower of the XX. And since my XX cranks out more horsepower than I can handle, I never visited this thread. However, I did visit it yesterday and I was quite suprised to find such an informative discussion about dietary health. Indeed, as a 61 year-old guy whose father passed away a few years ago with pancreatic cancer, I am consciously alert to any discussions about the pancreas. Also, I'm concerned about keeping my own good health. Lowering my cholesterol has been my prime concern most recently; but since I've read your info about a low carb diet, I am now thinking seriously that I need to move in that direction too! Now I have to sort out all this info. Knocking sugar out of my diet is not a major difficulty for me since I rarely use the stuff and avoid junk foods. But I can always learn more. I guess what also caught my attention in this thread is the topic of high fat, high protein, and low carb. As you may know, lowering cholesterol usually means staying away from fatty foods. Thanks once again guys. Lynx60

[RodeRash]

Hello Lynx60.

Welcome to the forum.

Interestingly enough, a low-carb high fat diet (stay away from trans-fats like margerine etc.) will usually lower triglycerides and your LDL cholesterol. It may increase your HDL cholesterol, but that is desirable.