TBS150 Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Today may be the last time I ride my XX with the LBS. I did receive the lines and the bracket I got made to remove the LBS. Brake lines from Cycles Brakes, 245$ with shipping. 2 lines in the front and 2 lines in the back plus 2 short lines to join the front calipers. Bracket made in a machine shop 185 $ Freedom of using the front brakes alone, priceless. I can't wait to put this on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aptyp Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 why? What's the benefit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted May 18, 2004 Share Posted May 18, 2004 Any reason you didn't go with a ready made kit? That's about what I spent on the 321ignition kit, including a matching clutch line. Maybe the price went up, or exchange rates have gotten out of hand since then, Anyway, congrats, you're gonna love it. You may find it nessecary to replace the front master, though. Many here who have delinked did, though not all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I checked the exchange rates a few days ago. The 321 Ignition kit with clutch line and shipping is just under $600. Not sure if there is any additional credit card fees for currency exchange, but that would be additional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBS150 Posted May 19, 2004 Author Share Posted May 19, 2004 Benefits: getting rid of a complicated system to bleed, uppgrading brake lines, having seperate control on the brakes. Been bugging me since I bought the bike, finally got around doing it. Some other things were bugging me more I guess, like the suspension. Using the full power of the front calipers, being able to use the rear brake alone. Does not mean that I think i can be better than the system. Question of habit. Ready kit, slight price difference not much, may be 50 to 75 $ cheaper than the kit. Canadian dollars to english pound, you need a lot. I am hoping that I will like the master cylinder, if not, will have to deal with it after. $$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aptyp Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Got it, but I still don't understand. Maybe I just don't push my bike hard enough. Dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pace Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 If the LBS only functioned one-way, such that engaging the front partially engaged the rear, I could live with it. However, if I need to trail the rear brake through a turn I do not want the bike standing up because the system is applying the front brake for me. I've been riding many years on a conventional system and didn't want to relearn or change my habits for LBS. Likely others feel the same way. I found that de-linking gave me more clamping force on the front rotor, in addition to providing improved feel. Plus, I like fucking with shit and can never leave anything mechanical in stock configuration. -Pace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBS150 Posted May 19, 2004 Author Share Posted May 19, 2004 Got it, but I still don't understand. Â Maybe I just don't push my bike hard enough. Â Dunno. It did happen to me a few times when entering a curve, you realise that you are too fast and a natural reflex for me is to apply the back brake gently. With the XX a little over gently does apply the front brake as well which will in return, straighten the bike up. The first time that this happened, I ended up on the other side of the road. After talking to myself for a while, I did swear that one day I would disconnect those brakes. Now is the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzz Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 In addition to Pace's reasons, there is one more why I don't like LBS: When I engage a gear (engine braking) while applying the brakes, I'm in the habit of releasing the rear brake slightly to avoid locking up the rear wheel. Now, I release the rear brake, which will also partially release the front brake. To compensate for loss of front brake power, I have to apply additional front brake pressure and, thanks to LBS, is now also applying additional rear brake pressure which brings me back to where I started. Arrrgh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aptyp Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Aha.. so it's basically just riding style that's a little different, I haven't really spent all that much time on the bike yet to get an intimate feel for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pace Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Aha.. so it's basically just riding style that's a little different, I haven't really spent all that much time on the bike yet to get an intimate feel for it. LBS is grounded on the premise that motorcycle riders are not able to independently manage the front and rear brakes in 'panic' situations. However, I believe that the 'cons' of LBS outweigh the 'pros' for all but the most inexperienced riders, who probably should not be on a Blackbird in the first place. :cycle: -Pace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aptyp Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I don't know about that. I think its an idea that seems to work well for me, for now. And if it is improved upon just as everything else is in the motorcycle business, it will become something very good once it really matures. I really like the fact that I can slow down very quickly without locking up and having excessive nose dive. Maybe I'm not the most experienced rider here and that's why I'm saying this but honestly I can't say that I feel any significant (or at all) disadvantage to this system. But its nice to know that its easily "fixable" if I ever need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aptyp Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Oh and I firmly believe that one of the qualities of a "better" motorcycle is that its easier to ride. Basically helps you to avoid mistakes, and I think this system is really a step in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 why? What's the benefit? Longer stopping distance, more likely to lock up the rear in a panic stop, poser points... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrated Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I really like the fact that I can slow down very quickly without locking up Don't confuse LBS with ABS. The two are different animals and the blackbird is not available with ABS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdxx Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 "I COULDN'T have overcooked the entrance into that last turn; must be the linked brakes' fault. Target fixation? Me? No way...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aptyp Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I really like the fact that I can slow down very quickly without locking up Don't confuse LBS with ABS. The two are different animals and the blackbird is not available with ABS I know what you are saying but I've locked up the rear on my sv and gixxer plenty of times while applying both brakes. The bikes are so light that under heavy breaking the rear just lifts up and the wheel locks up. I dunno guys, don't mean to start up any kind of flame war here, but I really DO like the idea of LBS. Time will show if its a practical idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdie_xx Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 SO , if I like the stock LBS does it make me a bad rider ? .... :twisted: Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampNut Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Don't confuse LBS with ABS. LBS has the effect of making it very hard to lock up, especially the rear. In fact I can't lock mine if I stand on it. I tried during the MSF ERC because the instructor insisted that it could--but no way. It just squats and stops hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdxx Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 LBS and ABS are slightly different routes toward the end of affording a rider more control in real-world, street/road riding conditions. In a racetrack environment unlinked systems might be more desirable, but for riding on public roads, I'll take the ABS or LBS system every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 You wanna lock up the rear, you have to use the front lever. Used to happen to me on a fairly regular basis. If you can brake hard enough to get the back off the gound, or even unweight it enough, it'll lock up. Randy also went down in the wet by locking up the front with the rear pedal, so not all is peachy in LBS land. I'll admit that for any kind of sane street riding it's not much of an issue 95% of the time, but it can get annoying, and dangerous, IMO, that other 5% of the time. Besides, I wanted the poser points, so I de-linked. How many points does that get me, anyway? :razz: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pace Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Time will show if its a practical idea. Well, it's had 7 years to prove itself and how many other streetbikes come so equipped? I think the jury is still out. There's good and bad points, both I agree. And like Redbird said.. some of us were low on poser points. :razz: -Pace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aptyp Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 Well it's new to me anyway So how does it work anyway? Does the rear brake get hit harder when you hit the pedal and does the front grab harder when you grab the handle? I know I should just do a search or read some manual, but humor me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pace Posted May 19, 2004 Share Posted May 19, 2004 I believe the rear brake is driven off the braking torque present at the front calipers. So the harder you apply the lever, the harder the front brakes come on, which in turn generates torque proportional to your momentum which then applies increased force at the rears. In the opposite direction, I think there is some sort of proportioning valve that redirects hydraulic pressure to the front calipers when you apply the foot brake. That's from memory when I pulled it all apart, so don't quote me on it. I guess it's a pretty clever system, but all the extra componentry adds significant weight over a conventional system. You don't realize how much until you compare it all to the de-linking kit. -Pace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBS150 Posted May 20, 2004 Author Share Posted May 20, 2004 I am completly new to the poser point system. Have no idea how many I am making by delinking. May be I get more because I can not stand a Corbin seat ??? In any case, the operation went well, everything was an easy fit. The bleeding is allways time consuming and tomorow I will riding, sorry posing. Joke apart, the information was just given to compare prices for different kits available. For the rest to each is own. Is it better, could be a long debate. Do I like it better, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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