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This is what I need...Forscan for dummies.

 

At the recommendations of several forum guys I looked closely at Forscan, ended up getting the OBD dongle they recommend for $50 off Amazon, and downloaded the software.  I figured my options were $400 for Auto Enginuity scanner, or $50 plus however many years license I purchase from Forscan.  Their full license is available as a 2 month trial for free, so I'm checking it out. 

 

Complicated, and I'm not used to working in hexadecimals, but we'll see how it goes.  I'm able to access much more information in real time than I can with my tuner, perhaps this will help me get a bit more comfortable with the truck.

 

Thanks for the recommends, guys.  I do pay attention, it just takes a while.

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51 minutes ago, rockmeupto125 said:

This is what I need...Forscan for dummies.

 

At the recommendations of several forum guys I looked closely at Forscan, ended up getting the OBD dongle they recommend for $50 off Amazon, and downloaded the software.  I figured my options were $400 for Auto Enginuity scanner, or $50 plus however many years license I purchase from Forscan.  Their full license is available as a 2 month trial for free, so I'm checking it out. 

 

Complicated, and I'm not used to working in hexadecimals, but we'll see how it goes.  I'm able to access much more information in real time than I can with my tuner, perhaps this will help me get a bit more comfortable with the truck.

 

Thanks for the recommends, guys.  I do pay attention, it just takes a while.

 

What's with the working in hex?  Everything I do with the Excursion is standard API stuff... a little on the clunky side, but hey, it's user-supported software.  Maybe because the Ex is old and the community has had time to polish up the interface?  The kind folks at Ford-Trucks.com should have all the normal, everyday uses/tweaks/changes documented fairly well.  

 

They must have changed the subscription thing, as I recall mine was free for the Windows version but absent some of the top-end items (I think key reprogramming was one of them).  And I think the purchased license was fairly reasonable.

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Odd, I bought myself an OBDI-II combo-scanner, I've used it on my other vehicles, but don't recall hooking it up to the old 2001. When the rain ran in through the rusted gap around the window and drowned my GEM module, all I remember was lots of hours reading forums, Youtube, and scouring the interwebs for the right replacement. I vaguely recall that the scanner probably wouldn't have targeted the GEM black box.

 

rockmeupto125 - Is there something in particular you're trying to trace, or just preventive maintenance/diagnostics?

 

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2 hours ago, XXitanium said:

Odd, I bought myself an OBDI-II combo-scanner, I've used it on my other vehicles, but don't recall hooking it up to the old 2001. When the rain ran in through the rusted gap around the window and drowned my GEM module, all I remember was lots of hours reading forums, Youtube, and scouring the interwebs for the right replacement. I vaguely recall that the scanner probably wouldn't have targeted the GEM black box.

 

rockmeupto125 - Is there something in particular you're trying to trace, or just preventive maintenance/diagnostics?

 

 

Diesels in 2002 were not fully OBDII compliant.  They have much of the data, just not in OBDII form.  FORSCAN and a couple others have this reverse-engineered so that a user can read almost all of the necessary data with it.  

 

I can't recall the year of Joe's pickup but it should be recent enough for full OBDII.  The issue is monkeying with more than just output data - there are a lot of defaults you can change in the software.  Again, FORSCAN is fairly functional for most things, but not quite up to the OEM diagnostic/customization equipment.   

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They obviously access the same data, but Forscan can do a lot more than TP - especially in later-model vehicles.  It's very versatile, but as it is a user-supported enthusiast application (read: both computer geek AND car freak), it can be a little mysterious or nonintuitive in certain modules.   I've had good luck with it, but then again I've only used it for monitoring and diagnostics on older, less complex modules - not changing operational parameters and such.  What you can do with it is dependent on the capabilities of the module you're working with, which is obviously affected by the year, make, model, and peripherals of the subject vehicle.  Newer vehicles have a lot more that can be altered, as electronic modules take over more and more management of things we never guessed would have needed management - wiper delay, high beam actuation, radiator fan control, torque vectoring through ABS actuation, etc.  I have not touched a module that does that stuff, but as many of the functions are interdependent, I understand that it is not impossible to make a grossly detrimental error.  

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There were a few things i was hoping to do with whatever program i got involved with.

 

Initially, i was just incensed that there was no way to know which tpms sensor was sending a lot signal without manually checking the you're pressure. That's stupid, right? My chevy says LF, RR, like it should. My 2008 F350 just gives me a pressure alert. So i wanted a way to find that out. Seems that forscan still can't do that, but it can allow me to change the low limit on the tpms to something other than 80 pounds.

Now that i had the sudden shiutoff issue that i traced to one of the three EGT sensors (don't know which one), i thought i got all the gremlins out of the system. Nope. Pulled the truck out of the driveway to clean up the snow the other day and left it idling for just a couple minutes while i put the carb shield back on the snowblower.  While I'm doing that three bolt chore, i hear the truck shut off. Damn!  Yep, is a P0200 code. I can't throw $50 sensors at this thing every time it farts, so i needed something that could read the egt's so i could figure out what's happening. And maybe even find a way to change the parameters to delay the "I'm shutting down and don't give a fuck what sort of trouble that puts people in" thing that Ford designed into it. 

 

I can tell you i ain't finding dick as far as spreadsheet data for that year truck. 2008-10 superduty's are really ford's red headed step children 

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From the little I know: P0200 is an injector circuit code.  EGT codes would be P20xx, last two digits indicating which sensor and the specific problem it's having.  I'm guessing problem in FICM, bad connection, chafed wire, injector starting to go.

 

Did you typo on the code, mistake your injector code as being an EGT code, or I don't know WTF I'm talking about?

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When you do the scan of stored codes, does it not indicate exactly which EGT sensor it is?  

 

I'm pretty certain that in Forscan, you can monitor each parameter in real time, and record it as well.  I've seen people post up some nice graphs of selected parameters.  Set it up to record, go change those carb shield bolts again?  Graphs can be very telling when diagnosing intermittents, if you see a very radical value change in a very short time (near vertical line on a graph) it is likely a connectivity issue or failed sensor.

 

Super Duties/Excursions have historically had harness chafing issues - they can be a bugger to find.  I'm with Oscar... intermittent open grounds, shorts, or heaven forbid, a FICM problem.  My BILs 6.0 Excursion did exactly this - randomly died while driving.  It had been through a bunch of owners in a few years, with extensive diagnostic history at various dealerships.  He got it for a song, and when installing the new exhaust, the shop found the main harness chafing on the frame.  Repaired the wiring, wrapped the harness with a piece of fire hose, and it never stalled again... still going strong toting around my stepdaughter's soccer team family.  

 

 

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posting from my computer rather than my phone, so perhaps the read will be more understandable and all.

 

P200E is the code, not P0200.  Sorry to send you chasing in the wrong direction, Oscar.

P200E is a general code for EGT out of range or sensor issue.   I've never gotten a code for a specific sensor. That would be great.

 

I hooked it all up real time yesterday and graphed out, ran like a top so I know no more than I did before. Any real information on this particular year/engine is nearly nonexistent.  At this point I'd consider just crossing them all with the same resister if it would run like that, but I don't know enough about the system to be sure, and I don't want to screw anything up. It's not like it can ever go back to stock again. I think if I can ever pinpoint it, I'll have to leave the computer hooked up ad nauseam to catch it when it happens.  I really just don't want to be stuck by the side of the road as a brick pulling a trailer. Or better yet in lane 2 of five 10 miles from downtown Atlanta. 

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With forscan running to see live data wiggle the wires and sensors looking for a change.  Go through as much as you can from sensor to computer.  Wiggle/tap on the sensors too.  If they ground through the pipe I'd start by wiggling the pipe since that would make all of their signals go nutty which could explain not getting a specific sensor code.  I assume the only ground point is the flange at the turbo so if it's loose or cracked maybe that's it.  If nothing pans out from the wiggle test you might just have to keep the computer in the truck full time 'till it shits and hope to see which one is showing a bad temp.

 

I think an out of range signal should only de-rate the motor, possibly by shutting off some cylinders, and not kill it while driving.  I could see a cylinder cut killing it at idle but maybe it wouldn't leave you fucked on the highway as you fear; has it ever shut off while driving or only at idle?  When it dies does it let you re-start right away or do you have to let it cool?

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There's a fair amount of discussion about it from forums.  Not fixing it, just bitching about it. 

 

There are codes for the individual sensors, I don't know why the non-specific P200E code generates, but it may be that there's a signal from all the sensors, but the difference between two of them is significant to throw the code.  I can't find any documentation to that effect.

 

When it codes, the info panel reads "stop engine safely" or something like that. Supposedly, the truck should continue running until it slows to 5mph, then the engine will stop. In reality, it just shuts off unless you have your foot in it, and dies as soon as I let off. Or it will just shut off when idling, which has also happened to me.  Once it shuts off, its a no-crank for 60 minutes via a timer in the ECM.  Really. So if the thing shuts off on the railroad tracks, you're fucked. I've read that the lockout is in the starter circuit, so if you can cross the starter, it will start if the code is cleared. I've read of a couple easy ways to do that, but haven't been able to duplicate it with my truck.

 

There's 4 exhaust temp sensors.  One downstream from the turbo (EGT-R), and three of the same sensor before the cat, after the cat, and after the DPF (EGT-11, 12, and 13).  I don't have a DPF, so the EGT-13 is the socket with a resistor stuck in it. I wonder about doing the same thing with 1 and 2 to get the damn thing to work.

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Has anyone from FTE posted the diagnostics procedure (pinout) from the Ford manual for your code?  It won't find an intermittent for you, but it can give you a laundry list of the systems, subsystems, harnesses, sensors, and dependencies involved.  I like your guess about the non-specific code - my limited experience with the "generic" codes, ones that don't specifically say something like "EGT2, out of range (high)", are systemic and caused by ground problems, rfi, or wierdness in the responsible ecm.  Are there any accessories installed in the truck that might induce rfi or otherwise cause a dirty power signal?

 

I'd also want to verify that it isn't a valid engine-threatening condition before bypassing.

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Every time I see this thread jump into my “you haven’t read” feed I laugh. 
 

I see .....

 

”Foreskin for Dummies” 

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Not sure if you ran across this more complete description in your search yet.
 
P200E - Catalyst System Over Temperature (Bank 1)  

Description: The powertrain control module (PCM) monitors the exhaust gas temperature bank 1, sensor 2 (EGT12) and exhaust gas temperature bank 1, sensor 3 (EGT13) sensors for an over temperature concern. If the EGT12 sensor temperature is greater than 830°C (1,526°F) or the EGT13 sensor temperature is greater then 950°C (1,742°F), the DTC is set. This DTC causes the PCM to immediately illuminate the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) and enter a torque reduction failure mode effects management (FMEM), which may result in engine shutdown. Once the engine is shut down, the PCM prevents the engine from restarting for 1 hour. If the EGT13 sensor is not working, the engine will not start.  
Possible Causes: Diesel particulate filter regeneration occurred during heavy load and high ambient temperature conditions 
Excessive amount of soot or ash in the diesel particulate filter 
Damaged EGT12 sensor 
Damaged EGT13 sensor 
Coolant contamination of the exhaust system 
Oil contamination of the exhaust system 

Diagnostic Aids: This DTC is an informational DTC and may be set in combination with a number of other DTCs which are causing the FMEM. Diagnose other DTCs first. Check the EGT12 and EGT13 PIDs. If no other DTCs are present, the system is operating correctly at this time. Advise the customer of the conditions that may cause this DTC.
 
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The starter bypass is a wire near one of your battery positive terminals - look for a lone wire that has a rubber pull-apart connection close enough to the positive lug to reach it when you pull it apart.  It should be brown with a green tracer.  It is on the passenger side on my 7.3, assumedly to keep you out of traffic if you need to be messing with it, so I'd guess it is on the passenger side of yours as well.  Turn the key on, touch the male end of the connector to the battery positive clamp bolt, and viola - you bypassed the starter interrupt from the PCM, and while the 60-minute time-out is still running, so is your engine.

 

If you get an instant or near immediate shutdown (or failure to start), my guess is the fault condition still exists - either the sensor is actually hot, or it still mistakenly thinks it is.

 

Do you still have a cat?  No other codes at the same time?

 

Not sure what you mean by "spreadsheet data" that you can't find?  

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Yeah, I've read the description and explanation of the code.

 

Sensors on the truck are PTC, so signal voltage increases with temperature.  My assumption is that the only things that will cause an overtemp signal would be a faulty sensor, a faulty ECM, or an actual overtemp situation. A break in the wire or contact to ground due to harness damage should lose signal, creating a non-working or absent sensor and generating a code for that specific sensor.

 

I have no DPF, but the cat is retained. EGT13 (bank 1, number 3) sensor is crossed with a resistor that allows a low level signal so the ECM doesn't get mad.  Not sure if it throws a code or creates a no start, I've never tried to run it without.  It's locked down on me several times, only in town never on the highway.  Sometimes within a minute or two of startup.  And its never given an indication of overheat....oil and coolant temps are good, and I rarely push the exhaust temperature past 1200 even pulling hard (that's the first downstream sensor from the turbo).

 

I have tried the brown wire bypass, didn't work.

No other codes.

 

Spreadsheet data for the truck would tell me what the different number codes, like 726-40-01 is TPMS for 2017 and up.  There's not much information on bastard child '08-'10 trucks. Cancel culture?

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Brown wire didn't work - key in "run" position?  It isn't a manual, right? (don't hit me next time you see me)

 

Based on what you say about temps - especially the minute or two of startup - guessing it is a false... so, how to find the source? 

 

Did you install the resistor, or was it modded when you bought it?  Just a resistor to give a static value, or resistor in addition to sensor in order to send a lower but still variable value?  If you disconnect the sensor (and don't have it jumped with a resistor), it should run but give a number of codes.  

 

One of the Ford TSBs for EGT sensors is to disconnect/clean the connectors at the sensor, grease it, reconnect it and seal it with heat shrink.  Also to remove/reseat the big multi-connector at the module the EGT goes to.  I have no idea which module this is.  Just evidence that there is a history of dirt/connection problems.

 

Wish I was closer, I'd love to play with that problem...

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Update 2/12/21

 

Got the truck inspected last month, in and out, 40 minutes and $40, no sweat.  Sometime shortly after I had the window open, which is unusual in this weather and heard a moaning sound while turning.  No play in the front end, and the loudest place I could here the sound was the left lower ball joint.  Of course they're not greasable, so I drilled a hole, tapped it, and put in a grease fitting.  Can you imagine that in this entire town, nobody had a taper thread grease fitting?  Hell, I know I do, I just can't find them in this disaster of a garage.   Once I greased the joint after the grease gun sat inside for the night, I could see where the hole in the boot is, and gave up, it needs a ball joint.  Easy job unless it is zero degrees out, so off to the garage it goes.

 

Now I've been graphing the EGT sensors, and the other day we were out testing (after charging the batteries that were at 8 volts, but that's another story) and EGT13 which is the one I have bypassed with a resister was definitely changing reading with any kind of good sized bump in the road, so maybe I need to redo that connection.  The reading is flat unless its bounced, so there should be no problem with the truck just sitting.

 

Dropped the truck off at the garage this morning.  Heater on all night, started great, no issues.  They just called to say the truck shut off and they can't get it started, what's the trick.  I told them reset the DTC and wait and hour, it should start. 

 

Fuck me.

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1 hour ago, rockmeupto125 said:

Once I greased the joint after the grease gun sat inside for the night, I could see where the hole in the boot is, and gave up, it needs a ball joint.  Easy job unless it is zero degrees out, so off to the garage it goes.

Now that it's greaseable the hole doesn't matter, it's only a big deal for sealed joints.  Greasable joints are never sealed, they just have a 'dust boot' which is likely to be less protective than a sealed boot with a hole.

 

As for the EGT, just because you only saw the reading change when going over bumps doesn't mean that it's not the cause of the shut-downs at idle.  If you can catch a shut down while looking at the numbers then you could probably determine if it is or isn't the cause.  This is why I suggested doing a wiggle test early on, it should let you find the source of the problem.

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What about trying a screen recorder app?  Let the truck run while connected to the laptop, recording the screen to a video file.  You won't have to stay glued to the screen waiting for it to randomly quit.

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