Red J Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 After chainwhipping my case into pieces, I am exploring avenues for getting back on two wheels. One of these options is getting the case welded back together. Anyone know a pro? Another option is modding the case and a Coerce-style sprocket cover, instead of repair. Much thanks in advance. Cheers, - J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 To properly weld the case, you'd have to completely disassemble the engine, and have the case bolted to a jig to prevent distortion. My recommendation is replacing the case (both halves recommended, for fitment concerns at the bearing surfaces). And overboring it............ :twisted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted April 22, 2004 Author Share Posted April 22, 2004 LOL. Both would have to be replaced anyway, broken bosses on the top and bottom. I'm with you on the overbore, my wife isn't as easily convinced that it's worth her money*... J. * It's all her money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalanx7.62 Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Nothing to add here, but J Red....did you get your flashlight yet?' It was mailed monday. Robb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted April 22, 2004 Author Share Posted April 22, 2004 Not yet, but I'm waiting on a order of parts for my 4Runner and some for my Landcruiser, and they haven't shown either. Maybe the UPS and mailman both forgot where I live... I'll let you know when I get it. Thanks again, tho! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zentime Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 I have some experience welding aluminum and engine cases. Some aluminum welds much better than others. When I got my XX the boss on the frame that holds the faring and gauges was broken. I was able to weld that reasonably well. Unfortunately, from my experience, the alloy used in engine cases doesn't well all that great. A couple of things are always true when welding aluminum. It needs to be clean, clean, clean and then clean it again. It's also enormously helpful to preheat it. Anyone you can find to give it a try should know this sort of stuff. The other thing I would suggest you do, is to get a junk chain cover for a welder to practice on first to figure out if he can do it. It might be good to post pictures of the damage, maybe there is an alternative repair. zen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted April 22, 2004 Author Share Posted April 22, 2004 Kinda what I thought, and very convincing argument for replacement. In the end, it's more of a guarantee than welding the case. Thanks much, guys. I was hoping it was gonna be cheap and difficult. Now it's expensive and difficult. :roll: :grin: - J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 gday j red.my engine case was welded about 60 odd thou klms ago and still holding up.unless yours is cracked through to the point of oil pissing out i really cant see a problem of it being patched.mine was done with the engine still in place and oil still in it.before having it done i spoke to a few aluminiun welders,one was a specialist in aircraft welding(might be worth checking some of them out}and his opinion was its a straightforward job that would cost less than a hundred bucks to do.all they have to do is find out the makeup of the metal and the rest is easy.hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted April 23, 2004 Author Share Posted April 23, 2004 It might be good to post pictures of the damage, maybe there is an alternative repair.zen I should have mentioned that I don't have all of the pieces, and that the case would need some additional parts to be complete. Photos, detailed at bottom. Thanks for the comments, poida. I have a friend who works in the aircraft industry, welding aluminum. Will get the cover over to him and see what he thinks. - J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 After studying the photos I was wondering if you have all the pieces with the bolt holes? nevermind ALL the pieces. Have you gone back to where it happened to look for pieces? I'm thinking if you have all the pieces with bolt holes try to get it welded. I see there are a coupple holes still attached. You could use a sleeve of the right length for the remainder to space the slave cylinder/sprocket cover. Again sorry this happened, good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted April 23, 2004 Author Share Posted April 23, 2004 I happen to have a set of 2mm over bored cases.. And a set of JE 12:1 radial gas ported pistons w/ rings & pins. I keep thinking I am going to put them up for sale some day and I never get around to it. Hell, I even have a gas tank with an extra set of bungs welded to it for a 2nd fuel pump..(I am sending the pistons off to JE today to be checked out, I want to make sure they are in excellent condition before I sell them and I also want to confirm the CR on them) But, I digress.. Thank you for the offer, Joe has a case set as well, and I have been considering the overbore anyway. Not sure that I really need more power, but if it's going to be a while before I'm back in action again, I may treat myself. Not sure yet, but I will keep it under consideration. Got your PM. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted April 23, 2004 Author Share Posted April 23, 2004 After studying the photos I was wondering if you have all the pieces with the bolt holes? nevermind ALL the pieces. Have you gone back to where it happened to look for pieces? I'm thinking if you have all the pieces with bolt holes try to get it welded. I see there are a coupple holes still attached. You could use a sleeve of the right length for the remainder to space the slave cylinder/sprocket cover. Again sorry this happened, good luck. All of the hole bosses are present. I did survey the area, the street was busy, and I didn't see anything. Some cage probably made off with my case fragments. One major issue with my bosses is that some of them are not only cracked off the block, but along the axis of the threads. Broke two ways. Not sure how they'll hold a thread again. I think that I am going to stud/loctite these locations if it goes back together. Thanks for the help, guys. - J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted April 25, 2004 Author Share Posted April 25, 2004 Update, for those who care. Money is tight, so I'm really looking hard into the repair. Wichita is home to much aircraft fabrication and welding, and airplanes are built of aluminum. Talked with a guy today who thinks it a non-issue, that it will be simple to repair. I am going to give him my broken sprocket cover and see what he can do with it. This will still require the engine to be pulled, but maybe I can get away without tearing the case down. - J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 I sure hope it works out for you. I know I couldn't afford a engine removal, teardown and new cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 I wouldn't want to weld a case with the internals still inside the engine, myself. The engine is painted inside & out, so some paint is going to come off the inside of the case when welding, and start floating around in your engine until the filter picks it all up. Secondly, you've punched a hole right through, and oil will be wicking out of that hole the whole time you're trying to weld it up. Oil is drawn to the heat source, so heating that area will keep pulling oil out of the hole in the case, making it impossible to weld. If you have to tear it down, then why re-install damaged & repaired cases when a good set is available? Just my opinion. :???: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted April 25, 2004 Author Share Posted April 25, 2004 I wouldn't want to weld a case with the internals still inside the engine, myself. The engine is painted inside & out, so some paint is going to come off the inside of the case when welding, and start floating around in your engine until the filter picks it all up. I'ma dissect your post here. The internals will stay in, but just the crankshaft and pistons/rods. The transmission will get pulled, it's too close. The welder dude says that he can keep the heat fenced in, and we'll just have to see if the tranny will spin when it's reinstalled. He has some foil cloth, that we'll wrap the rest of the motor in, and bind the stuff to the case around the exposed rotating assembly, to keep stuff out. At least that's the plan. Secondly, you've punched a hole right through, and oil will be wicking out of that hole the whole time you're trying to weld it up. Oil is drawn to the heat source, so heating that area will keep pulling oil out of the hole in the case, making it impossible to weld. Dunno if I read this right, but the case structure is fully intact. The broken area didn't penetrate the case wall. It's well away from that. We'll have to clean that part of the case, no doubt. Before and after. Let me know if I'm not understanding you... If you have to tear it down, then why re-install damaged & repaired cases when a good set is available?Just my opinion. :???: If I can keep my rotating assembly inside my repaired case, and feel good about the repair and the cleanlinless, then I'll do it. Of course, if something doesn't go right, I'll get another case. Thanks for the comments, let me know about that second one. I don't think I'm missing anything, but that's why I've posted here... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted April 25, 2004 Share Posted April 25, 2004 http://speedzilla.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=25795 came across this. dunno if the fun centre place is anywhere near you but might be worth a call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Dunno if I read this right, but the case structure is fully intact. The broken area didn't penetrate the case wall. It's well away from that. OK, my mistake. I thought you said you punctured the case into the oil. That would have created additional problems on it's own. Bottom line is it's up to you. If you feel good about the repair, and will next time you're running 150+, then great for you. That'll definitely save some money. You do know that the cases will have to be split to remove the trans, right? Still a lot of work to be done, and I hope he can guarantee the repair, so you don't have to pay if it doesn't work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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