Crash1alot Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 I have heard alot about this and with the help of the old owner and the hot rod shop. Bike shops charge waaaay too much for the same quality of fuel (both used to work there) We have done a race fuel test. (trick race fuel used) 1. As a base the engine was drained of all fuel (sat for a while) and refilled with 91 octane pump gas. The bike was re-tuned to straight across vacuum numbers and the test ride ensued. Both myself and my friend rode it to get two responses. 2. The 91 was drained and straight trick unleaded was used (app. 104 octane) No carb retuning was done and the test ride results from both of us were 1. cold starts were same 2. harder hard starts (small) 3. throttle respone remained the same with no sputtering,hiccups, or other farts of any nature. 4. no noticable gain in power. 3. Unleaded drained and 113 was used, almost same results as above exept off idle response was sluggish until 3500 was reached then minimal improvements were noticed in acceleration and cruise smoothness. 4. it starts progressivly getting worse, with 116, 117, and n119 (designed for nitrous engines) and various mixes of the fuel. Everything just got worse, hard to start cold or hot, idle quality ??? WHERE??? acceleration test was stopped after dodge neon won intersection race (( Alas, looks like race fuel wasnt for the 'Bird. BUT dont fret, it gets better I promise !!!!! It was meant for better fuel !!! NOW we started over with the race fuel and began to re-tune the engine to even vacuum numbers across all four cylinders every time we changed fuel and after calculation of the Birds comp ratio, cyl. pressure, RPM band, we found the golden go-go juice !! Test results on the golden goods were 1. Fired first crank cold and hot. 2. Idle RPM increased (a sign of more power) and was re adjusted 3. Idle quality was very smooth as with normal engine tuning and fuel 4. Acceleration improved drastically, Hazing of rear tire even with 32 PSI In first and second, then hookin in third 5. snapping of the throttle resulted in immediate response 6. Mid RPM throttle response was extremely crisp 7. as with high RPM, Engine continued to pull harder and harder througout the rpm band, NO MATTER WHAT GEAR !! 8. 6th gear acceleration from 65 was insane, whithin what felt like a few seconds the Bird was flying along at 180, there was more but traffic ensued :mad: still 15 MPH faster than top speed stock 9. Temp did increase a few degrees all around, but no adverse affects 10. Ahhhh the one youve probably been waiting to hear..... Fuel mileage per tank was 230 miles per tank with hard riding and get this, 195 with cruising around. 11. exhaust smell improved exponentially !!! It loved to run !!! It wanted to go, and when you asked it delivered with tire hazing, standing up rearing its belly and flying through radar traps !!! I also ran against my other friend on his heavily upgraded gsxr1000fi and he would tear away from the start then just go away ! as this time he was shocked when he looked over and he said damn guess the tuning and fuel did make a difference, He still was in front but I could almost reach out and touch him !!!! The mix was 2 gallons of the unleaded with 3 gallons 116 (blue tint) and tuning is very important you must retune the bike to accept the denser fuel or all your gonna get is an expensive, sweet looking, sweet smelling, hiccup monster !!! Now the downside, if you all of the sudden have to stop on a long trip to get regular fuel, performance does drop and stuttering was noticed when cruising (lean mis-fires) promptly cured by adding the right mix. I have also noticed cleaner smog numbers (LOL) and plugs survived longer. Hope you get to experience this for yourself, and no you wont convince me it doesnt work or it a waste of time because I know then your doing something wrong. I tried it and it does work. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Just how much is the 116 octane fuel a gallon? I know Cam 2 around here is like $4.50 a gallon (last yr) I am happy with 93 myself (if they lowered the price on that I would be even happier) Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash1alot Posted April 9, 2004 Author Share Posted April 9, 2004 Its about 4.25 a gallon here But I think its worth it once a week to put in 25 bucks worth. The difference is just too much to let go with !! Your lucky with 93 all we have here is 91 and we had it tested and its more like 89 not 91 !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jette Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Hey, guess what?! High octane fuel is actually LESS explosive, less volatile, has less FLASH if you know what I mean. It is designed to not detonate when used in a compression engine. The high compression may give you more power! It DOES NOT MEAN it will necessarily give more power to your old biatch of a bike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 According to my local engine guru (my engine builder), who has done extensive testing for race bikes (Factory Honda, Factory Kawasaki race teams)............ High quality race fuel will add power. Elf, for instance, will add 4-5hp. There are others as well. They have legal additives in them designed to burn more efficiently, not just higher octane numbers. Fuel like this will not, however, add another 20hp to the bike, or give you turbo-like performance as the first post in this thread will lead you to believe............. :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash1alot Posted April 10, 2004 Author Share Posted April 10, 2004 Ok then why does it run like it does then ??? Explain that to your guru maybe I stumbled on something else, I doubt it, I know what Im doing, and you will make more power when tuned right and with the right fuel for the compression ration and rpm. For someone who has that sig line maybe you should think before you talk as should I. I figured Id add my test results that worked and maybe help someone else have more fun on there bird and extend its life. And it does exactly what I said it did if ya dont beleive me feel free to come ride it if you want. Please dont insult me with second hand info, I also know tuners that cant tune for shit but there right. lol Let the flames begin lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Just a few Q's, Is this a carb or FI XX? Whan you say "tuned for even vacuum numbers" what do you mean? It sounds like carb (or throtle body) syncing to me as Joe said. If you mean tuned with an exaust gas anilyzer and got 12 to 1 air fuel mixture across the board using jets or power comander I could see an improvement. You are still limited to the amount you can take in with each intake charge though. Without adding high compression pistons to make some use of the high octane you are still wasteing the extra octane. Interesting test though. :bike: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Yeah, what he said......... :pointup: Thank you, Dean. :worship: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash1alot Posted April 12, 2004 Author Share Posted April 12, 2004 Roket me , Pete in PA Wish we did dyno it to prove the change I do know seat of the pants and pucker factor arent real numbers, But re synching the carbs was absoulutly neccesary, It did detonate backfire spit and pop before we re adjusted the carbs, the weight of the fuel is alot higher meaning more mass and alot more dense, acting like a richer mixture which made it sputter, after the adjustment it cleaned right up and began to run smooth at higher rpm. tuning to vacuum numbers is a cheaters way to balance the carbs, when you balance them across all four cylinders to there highest numbers evenly across the gauges then they are palanced (basically sucking the same). When its back up and running (on the trailer now for its inspection) Ill go and detune it to the 91 then redo it on the right gas for the bike and send you all some numbers. And last I checked the bird had 11.8 comp ratio and redline is 11,400 if you do the math (I had the machine shop do it) It needs around 112 if retuned properly to make max hosepower without changing any engine internals. Good exhaust numbers for emmision efficeincy are 14.0 : 1 (Stochimetric as its technically called) 12.0 : 1 is more of a power ratio and emmisions numbers will go up as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Just to correct your numbers...... Stock compression ratio is advertised as 11:1, but is measured lower than that. Stock redline is 10,800, but the rev limiter kicks in about 500RPM above that. Stoichiometric ratio is 14.7:1 = everything is burned. Maximum efficiency, theoretically. Max power can be reached around the 12:1 you mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 You've still got me lost as to why you had to resync. the carbs for every change of fuel. Syncing carbs is nothing but adjusting the throttle plates the same to each other. In essence adjusting each carbs idle independantly. Once this is correct it wont change untill vibration or wear of the linkages changes it. I could see bumping the idle screw up or down for each fuel though due to burning efficiency as this effects all carbs equally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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