Amsoil substitute

[X1rider]

Amsoil full synthetic 10W40. I change @ 4000 miles. The 65000 mile XX doesn't use a drop in those 4000 miles. I did slip up on the last oil change and went 5000 miles. It had used not quite 1/2 quart.

It always shifts better after an oil change. BTW, the motor finally loosened up after a 3200 mile road trip last September! That was 55000 to 58000 miles. At 60000 miles I had my first valve clearance check. Only the 2 exhaust valves on #1 were .005 tight. All the rest were within spec.

I pay $8.00 a quart from a friend who is a distributor. Nothing but the best for my dog..........Alpo, don't you know!

[RedEye]

Amsoil is very good at marketing -- as they should be, considering it's a MLM outfit. There are certainly no shortage of Amsoil proponents out there, usually sporting a fanatical drink-the-coolaid fervor. But I don't see any evidence that Amsoil is any better than any other quality oil (except of course, in the promotional stuff Amsoil itself floods the internet with). Until something equivalent goes on sale at a better price, I'll stick to Rotella T6 5W-40 full synthetic, which by the way is now JASO-MA certified. Shell never cared too much about that in the past since motorcycles are a tiny market compared to heavy equipment, but enough people asked about it to make them finally realize that getting the cert was an easy way to take some market share away from the overpriced snake oil targeted at riders. And I'm not talking specifically about Amsoil, it seems that pretty much anything with "motorcycle" on the label is overpriced by a good 50%.

You should stick with the 10W-40. It is what the motor was designed for. Too thin and the oil might allow some metal to metal contact under heavy loads because the pump can't keep the clearances full of oil. Too thick and there might not be enough pressure down stream to fill those clearances.

You're half right -- you should stick to a 40 weight oil. 5W-40 is also a 40 weight oil; so is 0W-40. Multi-grade oils must meet ALL the requirements and restrictions of both grades listed. When warmed up, 5W-40 or 0W-40 will perform exactly like 10W-40, but will flow much better than 10W-40 when cold, which may or may not be a big deal for you. I ride in temps ranging from -5C to nearly 40C, and sometimes see nearly that temperature range in the span of a few days

[HANKSXXX]

For you "by the book" types:

10W-30.....recommended 10 deg-90 deg F

10W-40.....recommended 10 deg-110 deg F

20W-40.....recommended 35 deg-110 deg F

20W-50.....recommended 35 deg-120 deg F

Extrapolating those ranges to accommodate 15-50 yields:

15W-50.....22.5 deg-120 deg F

Temp reference your riding environment.

I would eliminate any automotive oils that show Energy Conserving on the label.

I wish the Synthetic Rotella (5W-40), also called 6T Rotella, was formulated to give the same viscosity as the std. dino oil (15W-40) although it has received certification from our gvt testing agencies as motorcycle compliant. I believe this oil is the only non specific motorcycle oil to do so.

While the 5W oil is not recommended, I could balance the 5W rating with the full synthetic oil (Rotella T6) that has a great (for motorcycles) additive package and would have no problem using it...

If you wonder why car oils keep getting "reformulated", the gvt mandates the auto manufacturers to warranty the emission systems for 100,000 miles (IIRC) and the oil companies have to remove certain additives to keep the catalytic converters from fouling. These additives are what makes motorcycle and heavy truck oils different from the car oils.

Just how much affect on the longevity of motorcycle engines without these additives remains a matter of conjecture...Ain't oil threads great???

Hank

[jon haney]

You should stick with the 10W-40. It is what the motor was designed for. Too thin and the oil might allow some metal to metal contact under heavy loads because the pump can't keep the clearances full of oil. Too thick and there might not be enough pressure down stream to fill those clearances.

You're half right -- you should stick to a 40 weight oil. 5W-40 is also a 40 weight oil; so is 0W-40. Multi-grade oils must meet ALL the requirements and restrictions of both grades listed. When warmed up, 5W-40 or 0W-40 will perform exactly like 10W-40, but will flow much better than 10W-40 when cold, which may or may not be a big deal for you. I ride in temps ranging from -5C to nearly 40C, and sometimes see nearly that temperature range in the span of a few days

You are also half right. With a multi-viscosity dino-oil such as 10W-30, it is supposed to be similar to a 30 weight oil when at engine temperatures. That does not mean it has the exact same properties. A straight 30 weight oil has more load carrying ability then a 10W-30 oil. My dad has repaired lawn and garden engines for 30 years and has seen a lot of galled cranks and rods from motors run with even 10W-40.

For synthetics, It appears they can carry the same load since Amsoil's small engine formula is actually 10W-30 now.

[Skull]

Amsoil is a scam.

[Mekanix]

I've spent a year or three wrenching and I have come to understand one thing if I understand anything. There's not a whole lot of difference between "sufficient" and "optimal".

Case in point...

Your engine is running rough. It's been faithful for 150,000 miles and you change your oil regularly and change the filter when you should. Dating myself a bit, but assume you use old fashioned spark plug wires. You have a free weekend and you decide to ohm out the plug wires and find a few that ohm out beyond spec and two with boots broken and hardened. You figure you should at least change the wires because you have a handful of failures anyway. Do you...

1. Buy original equipment wires. They worked fine for 150K miles and seemed to do the job.

2. Buy $200 Super Accel Hyper coil condensor spark wires.

Most will think #2 is the obvious choice. #1 one was the correct and properly designed wire for the job. It worked without you noticing anything for over 100K miles. In the end, the minuscule advantage you may see is promptly overridden by the cost of the wires.

I've seen 150K plus time and time again for all my cars and I have over 50k miles on the bird. I pulled the cover off for a Stator change and the inside was spotless. The beast still pulls like a train and I have no ill effects. I have not done an engine analysis and I haven't had my oil tested. Based on my Mobil 1 experience in cars, and my Honda experience in engines, I expect the rest of the bike to rust away before the engine suffers any ill effect from the oil. (Yes, I know aluminum doesn't rust...)

Back to my original example. It wouldn't matter what kind of oil I used if I didn't change it. I am a firm believer in the quality of synthetics. I can find Mobil 1 practically anywhere.

Amsoil may be marginally better as shown by their own tests. It is, IMHO, not significant enough to justify the cost of the oil, the headache of maintaining a distribution line, or the lack of convenience of getting only what I need, when I need it.

It may be worth it for someone else to deal with Amsoil, and I think it is probably worth what you pay. Just not worth it to me.

[jon haney]

I've spent a year or three wrenching and I have come to understand one thing if I understand anything. There's not a whole lot of difference between "sufficient" and "optimal".

Case in point...

Your engine is running rough. It's been faithful for 150,000 miles and you change your oil regularly and change the filter when you should. Dating myself a bit, but assume you use old fashioned spark plug wires. You have a free weekend and you decide to ohm out the plug wires and find a few that ohm out beyond spec and two with boots broken and hardened. You figure you should at least change the wires because you have a handful of failures anyway. Do you...

1. Buy original equipment wires. They worked fine for 150K miles and seemed to do the job.

2. Buy $200 Super Accel Hyper coil condensor spark wires.

Most will think #2 is the obvious choice. #1 one was the correct and properly designed wire for the job. It worked without you noticing anything for over 100K miles. In the end, the minuscule advantage you may see is promptly overridden by the cost of the wires.

I've seen 150K plus time and time again for all my cars and I have over 50k miles on the bird. I pulled the cover off for a Stator change and the inside was spotless. The beast still pulls like a train and I have no ill effects. I have not done an engine analysis and I haven't had my oil tested. Based on my Mobil 1 experience in cars, and my Honda experience in engines, I expect the rest of the bike to rust away before the engine suffers any ill effect from the oil. (Yes, I know aluminum doesn't rust...)

Back to my original example. It wouldn't matter what kind of oil I used if I didn't change it. I am a firm believer in the quality of synthetics. I can find Mobil 1 practically anywhere.

Amsoil may be marginally better as shown by their own tests. It is, IMHO, not significant enough to justify the cost of the oil, the headache of maintaining a distribution line, or the lack of convenience of getting only what I need, when I need it.

It may be worth it for someone else to deal with Amsoil, and I think it is probably worth what you pay. Just not worth it to me.

I think the plug wire comparison is "apples vs. oranges" when compared with oil choices, but I would have gone with the OE wires too. I guess that means I agree with you, and I'm pretty sure that I would be using Mobil 1 too, if my dad was not a dealer.

[Zero Knievel]

I think the plug wire comparison is "apples vs. oranges" when compared with oil choices, but I would have gone with the OE wires too. I guess that means I agree with you, and I'm pretty sure that I would be using Mobil 1 too, if my dad was not a dealer.

I'm not so sure. It's been a while since I had to replace spark plug wires, but I can attest that high-quality aftermarket is usually as good or better than OEM and cheaper.

[jon haney]

I think the plug wire comparison is "apples vs. oranges" when compared with oil choices, but I would have gone with the OE wires too. I guess that means I agree with you, and I'm pretty sure that I would be using Mobil 1 too, if my dad was not a dealer.

I'm not so sure. It's been a while since I had to replace spark plug wires, but I can attest that high-quality aftermarket is usually as good or better than OEM and cheaper.

I don't doubt that at all, but there is no way I would spend $200 for wires on a vehicle that old. I was just choosing from the two options given.

When I said "apples vs oranges", I was referring to the importance of quality replacement plug wires (Something that "shouldn't" affect the life of an engine) vs. quality of engine oil.

(For those of you who chose to ignore the quotes I put around the word "shouldn't" and can't resist the urge to comment, please start a new thread.)

[Fast Eddy]

I go with Shell rotella synth 15/40

20 bux a gallon and the local farm & fleet.

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