TFT Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 We were riding up into the mountains this afternoon. I was riding my '97 XX. I started to smell something burning,, not sure if it was someone's clutch coming down the hill. It didn't really seem like it was coming from my bike. I hit a bump and my speedometer and tach go dead. We pulled off to a rest area and I turned the bike off, let ot set for a few minutes and then tried to start it. Barely any charge in the battery, the bike barely cranked over and then nothing. I rolled the bike down hill, and bump-started it. The bike fired up and the gauges came back to life. I started riding back down the mountain, covered about a mile and the gauges went dead again. I made it about 5 miles down the mountain and then the engine started to sputter and backfire and then the engine went dead. I coasted about another mile until I hit a flatt spot. I called some friends and we laoded the bike into the back of a pick-up and brought it home. What could be the cause? I couldn't find any burnt wires and there wasn't any burnt odor from the bike. Rectifier? The battery is dead so I have it on a charger. On Tuesday i plan to take it to Honda, The dealership is only 5 miles away. Could I stick the charged battery back in it and make it or should I load it up and haul it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaygermeister Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Ok if you have a volt meter that also reads olms try this after you fully charge your battery. This should nail down your problem (battery, stator, RR). http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/index.php?...c=10378&hl= If you find out it's the RR get a 2001 Yamaha R1 RR like this. http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/index.php?...mp;hl=rectifier Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willxx23 Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 My bike did about the same when the stator gave up...at least from what I have tested it to find right now...my new stator from Rick's should be here tomorrow...after putting that in I'll be checking my R/R and see if it was bad...and I popped for a new battery.....this electrical stuff can get pricey...mostly annoying though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobicus Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Tom, if the battery is older than about 3 years, replace it. Really, it's impossible to diagnose a charging problem with a weak battery. Putting it on a charger isn't a bad idea, but when in doubt, a new battery is cheap insurance. You really don't have to take it to a dealer to do this work, Tom. It's pretty easy stuff. On a 97, everything is on the left side under the rear cowl. To diagnose the problem, all you need is a fully charged battery and an electrical meter ($15 at Wal Mart) Basic charging system test: With a fully charged battery, start the bike. Set your meter to DC Volts, and test across the battery. It should be around 12.5 volts at idle, and when you rev up the engine, it should climb to between 14.0 and 15.5 volts. IF it goes higher than 15.5, it's your regulator/rectifier. If it doesn't climb, or doesn't climb enough, you'll need to test your stator before determining if the problem is the stator or RR. How to test your stator: http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/index.php?...mp;#entry613824 If you're getting decent AC voltage from the stator, it's the RR. Replace it with an R1 RR, and buy the wiring pigtails from BartonMD. If it's the stator, here's how to replace your stator: http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/index.php?...5&hl=stator If you want someone to talk to while you're doing it and don't still have my number, PM me and I'll send it to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFT Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Thanks for the responses and suggestions. What batteries will replace the XX Battery on a 97XX? I bought a new battery for Jackie's bike a few months ago at the dealership and it ran me over $100.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Now, if you'd have had a volt meter (like the Datel) mounted above your gauges, it would have told you about your problems about an hour before it actually died... OR rather... it'll tell you about your problems, then you pull over, shut the bike off, disconnect your low beam, bump start the bike, and head for home... A friend of mine in college killed an R/R on his 900RR... For about a month, he would unplug the headlight, charge the battery, and ride around for a couple hours every evening, before it got dark... They'll run for quite a while when you're only running the running lights and ignition... Running a fuel pump, injectors, and computer will run it down faster, but on a carb'd bike, unplug the headlight, and head for home... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFT Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 Here is what Joe sent me and here are my results in BOLD: (The battery was charged overnite and it had been off the charger for about an hour when I ran this test. The bike fired up immediately and all the gauges and lights functioned normally.) Rules to start with....not absolute, but a good place to start with preliminary diagnostics-------------------------- *If its the battery not taking a charge, or holding only a partial charge, you'll see good output from the regulator to the battery. *If its the regulator, you'll see a very high voltage at the battery. *If its the stator, you'll see low voltage at the battery. If its a ground, you'll see no voltage at the battery. To check voltage at the battery, use a electrical meter set to a little bit more than normal system DC voltage (usually 20 volt range). Put the positive lead to the positive terminal of the battery, and negative to the negative terminal. Unless you get a fancy meter, it will have simple probes, and you'll have to grow another hand to hold two leads on the battery and check other stuff. Just jam one of them into a small opening at the battery connection so it doesn't fall out. When the bike isn't running, you should get 12.5-13.5 volts ( I got 12.51). Then turn the key switch on, and watch the voltage drop to 11.2-11.5 as it powers the headlight and sundry electrical ( I got a steady 12.02). More than that points to a weak battery. If you can watch the voltage steadily drop over a 10-15 second period, the battery is going bad. Start the bike. You should see 13.2-14.5 volts at the battery. Bring the revs up. ( I got a 11.96) The voltage should climb to no more than 15 volts. You shouldn't get any increase in voltage after 4-5 thousand rpm. If you do, the regulator has failed. If you get the same voltage (or less) after the bike has started that it had before it started, the stator is bad. So, based on this I am assuming the stator is bad. The wires to the regulator looked fine, not stiff or discolored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Here is what Joe sent me and here are my results in BOLD: (The battery was charged overnite and it had been off the charger for about an hour when I ran this test. The bike fired up immediately and all the gauges and lights functioned normally.) <snip> So, based on this I am assuming the stator is bad. The wires to the regulator looked fine, not stiff or discolored. Yes, that sounds like the stator. Your bike failure and testing sounds pretty much exactly how mine went three years ago, and it was the stator. I replaced both stator and R/R, just in case the R/R was a root cause of the stator failure. As Mike mentions, a volt meter mounted on the bike is a handy tool to help you identify a problem with the charging system before it strands you out in the middle of nowhere. I put one on my bike after the stator failed so I can keep an eye on charging voltage when I'm out riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 FWIW, my OEM R/R failed open or high-resistance... I was getting no charging from it, like you are... I replaced the R/R, and it fixed everything (I am still running the OEM stator)... My wires weren't burnt, and neither was my connector. From the burning smell you were smelling, I wouldn't expect it would be the stator (not much, if any, air comes out of there), but it could be the connector under the tank where the stator connector connects to the other side of the connector, which comes out of the harness... Just follow the stator wires up to the harness, under the tank, and you'll find the connector... Mine was fine, but that doesn't mean yours is, too... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 FWIW, my OEM R/R failed open or high-resistance... I was getting no charging from it, like you are... I replaced the R/R, and it fixed everything (I am still running the OEM stator)... My wires weren't burnt, and neither was my connector. Mike +1 Before you go tearing into the stator, unplug it from the R/R and check for A/C voltage (about 50) between any two of the three wires (three checks). Perform this test with the bike running and rev it to about 4-5000 rpm. If you don't get around 50 volts on all three tests, stator is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaygermeister Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Look near the regulator/rectifier assembly under the seat and find the connector with three yellow wires on one connector half. Unplug this connector, and with the engine off, measure resistance between these three yellow wires (three measurements); you should read a low resistance (0.1 to 1.0 ohm). An open means a leg of the stator has opened, and the stator will have to be replaced. Measure between each yellow wire and ground; you should read an open (infinite resistance). A short or low resistance means the stator has shorted out and will have to be replaced. If these measurements are good, then the charging system is okay, and you need to look at the regulator/rectifier. Measure voltage across the battery (with both battery leads connected...) and the engine running at about 5000 rpm, and the headlight high beam on. You should measure about 15.5 VDC. Too low or high, and the regulator/rectifier is suspect. Check for loose or corroded connections around the r/r, and check your ground connections. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Look near the regulator/rectifier assembly under the seat and find the connector with three yellow wires on one connector half. Unplug this connector, and with the engine off, measure resistance between these three yellow wires (three measurements); you should read a low resistance (0.1 to 1.0 ohm). An open means a leg of the stator has opened, and the stator will have to be replaced. Measure between each yellow wire and ground; you should read an open (infinite resistance). A short or low resistance means the stator has shorted out and will have to be replaced. If these measurements are good, then the charging system is okay, and you need to look at the regulator/rectifier. Measure voltage across the battery (with both battery leads connected...) and the engine running at about 5000 rpm, and the headlight high beam on. You should measure about 15.5 VDC. Too low or high, and the regulator/rectifier is suspect. Check for loose or corroded connections around the r/r, and check your ground connections. Hope this helps. This! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogoMan Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Battery...I just put an Xtreme X2 Power (model X2-14) in my '02. I took the rubbers out of the battery tray to give the battery sufficient headroom since it was taller than the OEM and Xtreme OEM replacement. Not sure if the batteries are the same in our bikes. I got the X2-14 from Batteries Plus. Its made by East Penn/Deka. It was under $100. Replacing the stator...the inside edges of the cover and the mating surface on the block are very sharp. Use gloves to keep from cutting your fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFT Posted July 7, 2009 Author Share Posted July 7, 2009 FWIW, my OEM R/R failed open or high-resistance... I was getting no charging from it, like you are... I replaced the R/R, and it fixed everything (I am still running the OEM stator)... My wires weren't burnt, and neither was my connector. Mike +1 Before you go tearing into the stator, unplug it from the R/R and check for A/C voltage (about 50) between any two of the three wires (three checks). Perform this test with the bike running and rev it to about 4-5000 rpm. If you don't get around 50 volts on all three tests, stator is bad. What if it reads closer to 60? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 FWIW, my OEM R/R failed open or high-resistance... I was getting no charging from it, like you are... I replaced the R/R, and it fixed everything (I am still running the OEM stator)... My wires weren't burnt, and neither was my connector. Mike +1 Before you go tearing into the stator, unplug it from the R/R and check for A/C voltage (about 50) between any two of the three wires (three checks). Perform this test with the bike running and rev it to about 4-5000 rpm. If you don't get around 50 volts on all three tests, stator is bad. What if it reads closer to 60? PERFECT! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 FWIW, my OEM R/R failed open or high-resistance... I was getting no charging from it, like you are... I replaced the R/R, and it fixed everything (I am still running the OEM stator)... My wires weren't burnt, and neither was my connector. Mike +1 Before you go tearing into the stator, unplug it from the R/R and check for A/C voltage (about 50) between any two of the three wires (three checks). Perform this test with the bike running and rev it to about 4-5000 rpm. If you don't get around 50 volts on all three tests, stator is bad. What if it reads closer to 60? PERFECT! Mike If your getting that much voltage you may need to pack some snow into the fins of the R/R for extra cooling. You have plenty of that stuff up there, right? You're good. New R/R should fix the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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