Ping TJ

[Little Mo]

Let me introduce myself:

My name is Moriah

Swampnut's sex toy

I ride an '01 SV650S (after a few years of practice maybe I will get to graduate to the XX)

I have one little one...Nathan age 5.

You keep mentioning your diet as cyclical ketogenic-paleolithic. Could you tell me what daily menu might look like? Maybe elaborate on your diet. Did I miss where you have posted this already?

My interest is not for weight loss (do you remember the pics Swampy posted?) but for health reasons. There are some genetic problems I have that I wonder if a better diet may help. Also, a better diet for my son to help his body fight any bad genes I might have passed to him.

[N1K]

(do you remember the pics Swampy posted?)

Well... Maybe we do, but that doesn't mean we couldn't go for some 'refresher' pictures? :razz:

OK... I won't hijack this thread... :wink:

[spEEdfrEEk]

My name is Moriah

Hi Moriah,

You keep mentioning your diet as cyclical ketogenic-paleolithic.

Yep.. Basically you can think of it like this: I try to only eat

low-carb things that I could find if the only technology I had available

was a stick and a rock.. Crazy eh?

What this means is, I prefer:

1) low in carbohydrate and sugar foods

2) foods that are not man-made or have little man-made components in

them

3) foods that could be eaten raw or with as little preparation as possible.

So, as your guy Swampy can tell you, pretty much anything that

is heavily grain or dairy oriented is off the list. (these fail all 3 above)

Meats, nuts, seeds, and fiberous veggies are the primary staples.

Whole meats: bacon, steaks, shrimp, etc. are better for you than

processed meats: spam, sausages, etc. etc.

Raw veggies are better for you than the types that have to be prepared.

Good: tomatos, lettuce, spinach, cucumbers, carrots, avocados, olives,

etc. Bad: potatos, beans, rice, soy, wheat, etc.

The same goes for nuts/seeds. Good: pecans, walnuts, almonds,

sunflower seeds, etc. Bad: peanuts, cashews, etc.

The low-carb stuff provides the "ketogenic" portion of the diet. The

"non-manmade" stuff falls into the paleolithic category, and the last

aspect of my diet is the "cyclical".

Basically it means that once in a while (say once a week) you come

off the low-carb stuff and eat some, preferably healthy, carbs.

The reasons why are pretty detailed, but the most important is that

it prevents metabolic slowdown in the thyroid..

Good choices for carbs are non-starchy veggies, and low-in-fructose

fruits. Good: grapes, almost every type of berry, melons, citrus,

etc. Bad: bananas, pears, apples, etc.

Truth be known, when I carb, I usually do it with not-so-healthy

stuff. (like fried and breaded foods). But, in general, I do it so

infrequently that it doesn't hamper my health.

I guess you could say that my "cheats" are more for mental health

than physical, ha ha.

Could you tell me what daily menu might look like? Maybe elaborate on your diet. Did I miss where you have posted this already?

Sure, in fact, I can give you an example of my "cut diet", which

is the one I use to shed bodyfat after a "gain cycle" where I am

eating like a horse and attempting to gain power in the gym..

Keep in mind, this diet is only an example. There are MANY other

alternatives for ingredients and spices. I'm am no master-chef, so

my meal plans tend to be boring.. (guess I need to find a gal who's

a good cook! ha ha)

[i'm e-mailing it to Carlos, he can get it to you..]

My interest is not for weight loss (do you remember the pics Swampy posted?) but for health reasons.

To be honest, I never encourage people to live this lifestyle just

for the "exterior" reasons. Many use it because they want to

look better. However, that's not the true benefit of the approach..

It's really better from a health and longevity point of view.

(anti cancer, anti viral, etc. etc.)

There are some genetic problems I have that I wonder if a better diet may help.

It might. It depends on what you mean by genetic. Bear in mind

that many of the things that modern medicine brands as "genetic"

really aren't. Much of the time that's just the label the medical industry

attaches to afflictions they do not understand (nor want to..)

Also, a better diet for my son to help his body fight any bad genes I might have passed to him.

It will certainly make him stronger, healthier, and more better adept

at dealing with any health issues he may have in the future.. You

wouldn't believe the problems I've seen associated with the low-fat

high carb diet and young children.. (and the really bad side-effects

associated with milk, cereal, and juices..)

I know I plan to raise my future children (if I am blessed to have some)

with the same lifestyle I lead now. I will give them a bit more carb

than I eat, but nothing processed or man-made..

:cool: TJ :cool:

[Little Mo]

Thanks for the breakdown of your diet. I have been looking it over and it makes sense to me. I don't know if I would have enough self control to be able to follow it but I am still interested.

I tried going low-carb a couple of months ago just to see what would happen. I lasted about 1.5 weeks before I gave up. I felt hungry all the time plus, I am such a carb addict I could not live without bread.

I can see the reasons and benefits of staying away from sugar. It is just the willpower that is the problem. I can also certainly understand your reasoning for staying away from man-made foods. But, then that eliminates being able to eat at restaurants? I hate cooking so I tend to eat out pretty frequently.

A couple of specific questions:

How about pistachios? Why not cashews?

Artichokes?

Why is it always “no salt”?

What would you do if you could not eat beef?

It depends on what you mean by genetic. Bear in mind

that many of the things that modern medicine brands as "genetic"

really aren't. Much of the time that's just the label the medical industry

attaches to afflictions they do not understand (nor want to..)

My genetic problems really have a family history. The most major being epilepsy. My aunt had it when she was a child and now my younger sister has recently been diagnosed with it also.

[spEEdfrEEk]

Thanks for the breakdown of your diet.

No sweat Mo..

I have been looking it over and it makes sense to me.

That's the beauty of the keto+paleo diet. It all makes sense because

it's based on common-sense evolution.

I don't know if I would have enough self control to be able to follow it but I am still interested.

Remember' date=' you don't have to follow _that_ particular menu.. I

just provided it as an example of what I do. The ingredients are more

important than the recipes.. (Like I said, I am no master chef, ha ha)

I tried going low-carb a couple of months ago just to see what would happen. I lasted about 1.5 weeks before I gave up.

Don't give up hope.. That is pretty typical.. My hunch is that you

tried it "cold turkey".. Many people have trouble with it when attempting

it that way..

Try to ease your way into it, and you'll see it's much easier to stick

with it..

I felt hungry all the time plus, I am such a carb addict I could not live without bread.

And bread is the worst.. It's heavily processed mono-ploidal wheat..

I can see the reasons and benefits of staying away from sugar. It is just the willpower that is the problem.

Your man has done quite alot of research in finding low-carb sugar

alternatives. He's the best source for info on how to handle the

occasional sweet tooth..

To be honest, I don't even crave sweets any more. In fact, I don't

even have a taste for carbs.. I usually only eat sugary food when it's

"politcally correct" to do so... (like a piece of cake at a birthday party)

I can also certainly understand your reasoning for staying away from man-made foods. But, then that eliminates being able to eat at restaurants?

Don't misunderstand.. I'm not talking about man-made foods as

in "prepared". I'm talking about man-made in the sense that it cannot

possibly appear in nature.. You know, you don't find many "natural" seedless grapes. Or many candybars growing on trees.. etc.

I hate cooking so I tend to eat out pretty frequently.

I eat out atleast 3 times a week (including breakfasts). It's not how

it's prepared, it's how "natural" it is..

A couple of specific questions:

Ok, shoot!

How about pistachios? Why not cashews?

Pistachios are fine, cashews are fine. They're just not as good as

the other nuts and seeds I suggest (walnuts, pecans, almonds, and

pumpkin seeds..)

Any nut that you can eat raw and unsalted is a "healthier" nut..

Artichokes?

Love 'em...

Why is it always “no salt”?

You can have as much salt as you want. I lift weights with religion and

too much salt causes me to cramp. So, I keep a very tight control

on my sodium-potassium ratio. Basically 50-50. "No-salt" tastes like

salt and is almost pure potassium. It's much cheaper to just sprinkle

that stuff on my food than swallow potassium pills..

What would you do if you could not eat beef?

Pork, Lamb, Turkey, Chicken, Salmon, Tuna, Shrimp, Crab...

(the list of meats is basically endless..)

My genetic problems really have a family history. The most major being epilepsy.

Then cheer up.. Ketogenic diets are PERMANANT, and TOTAL cures

for epilepsy. In fact, I could dump tons of research on you that

shows that ketogenic diets applied for 2 years have eliminated

all siezures in children that were totally non-responsive to the

traditional drugs.. (and suffered grand mal seizures..)

Yep.. Get ketogenic (or get your Boy ketogenic) and you will most

likely never experience a seizure ever again..

My aunt had it when she was a child and now my younger sister has recently been diagnosed with it also.

Then be really happy, because now you have a means for helping

a good chunk of your family be free of the affliction..

:grin: TJ :grin:

[Little Mo]

Don't misunderstand.. I'm not talking about man-made foods as

in "prepared". I'm talking about man-made in the sense that it cannot

possibly appear in nature.. You know, you don't find many "natural" seedless grapes. Or many candybars growing on trees.. etc.

But what if the restaurant is making your eggs with margarine and using MSG? I know you are anti-dairy but isn't real butter better than all those chemicals they put in margarine? Most restaurants I have ever asked told me the only thing they don't put MSG on is the salad.

Then cheer up.. Ketogenic diets are PERMANANT, and TOTAL cures

for epilepsy.

I thought the ketogenic diet that has had good results was a very specific diet with very specific ratios? A majority of calories come from fat. It seems in the Atkins or other similar diets most of the calories come from protein? If you have any info on the diet being used in adults I would be very interested. I am just not finding anything but childrens studies.

Then be really happy, because now you have a means for helping

a good chunk of your family be free of the affliction..

I would love that. I have been taking nasty terrible drugs that kill my brain for 10 years and now my poors sister is having to do the same. Not to mention what the actual seizures do to our brains.

[spEEdfrEEk]

Hey Mo! Whuzzz shakin'?

But what if the restaurant is making your eggs with margarine and using MSG?

Then you eat eggs with margarine and MSG

Seriously, don't sweat the small things. Every once in a while

you're going to get some unhealthy stuff. That's just a

consequence of eating out.

In general, you'll be able to keep to the safe stuff most of the

time, and as long as you stay low-carb you'll be alright.

The way I look at it is this: Low carb comes first, then paleo

is the next most important.

Just do your best.

I know you are anti-dairy but isn't real butter better than all those chemicals they put in margarine?

Absolutely. Opt for the more natural stuff any time you can. The

most important things to avoid (from a man-made point of view) is

hydrogenated oils and fructose (or high-fructose) syrups. Those

are the reallllllly bad ones and are usually clearly marked on products

that contain them.

Most restaurants I have ever asked told me the only thing they don't put MSG on is the salad.

Like I said, unless you eat out more than you eat at home I don't

see it being too big of a problem. Besides, the spin on MSG has

been changing alot recently.

I thought the ketogenic diet that has had good results was a very specific diet with very specific ratios?

Isn't the modern medical industry lovely? They put out their research

on ketogenic diets and list things like "ratios" and MCT oil treatments

for epilepsy.

To be honest, the ratio is whatever fat-carb-protein ratio you need

to stay ketogenic all of the time. They suggest 75-25 fats vs. everything

else. And that will certainly keep you ketogenic, no matter how much

you eat. However, over time, you'll see you can decrease the

ratio a bit and still stay in ketosis.

As far as MCT oil goes, there's no reason the medical industry uses it

other than they can make money off of it. The MCT's are simply

extracted from coconut milk/oil. You can get the exact same effect by

eating fats from other sources -- meats, nuts, seeds, etc. It's just

that the pharmaceutical companies are prohibited from patenting

meats, nuts, and seeds.

A majority of calories come from fat. It seems in the Atkins or other similar diets most of the calories come from protein?

That's what the common misconception is. Atkins and ALL ketogenic

diets do _not_ rely on proteins. That's the pop-diet culture take on

them. In fact, low-carb diets actually only work if they are more "fat"

oriented. My specific diet, for example, is about 60-65% fats, 30-35%

proteins, and about 5% carbs. Hardly protein oriented, wouldn't

you say? :grin:

If you have any info on the diet being used in adults I would be very interested. I am just not finding anything but childrens studies.

In regards to epilepsy, there's very little difference between children

and adults. You see, the reason the keto-diet appears to work so well

is that it changes brain metabolism from glucose to ketone. That

seems to be the magic bullet that stops the brain "misfires"..

I will post some of the research I've dug up on this topic. In fact, I am

thinking about running a weekly "keto info" post in this section of the

forum. As I've told others, I used to run a web site and mailing list that

helped people with this lifestyle as it relates to training, fitness, disease,

and nutrition. Might as well post some of that info here for you guys!

(my extended biker family, ha ha )

I would love that. I have been taking nasty terrible drugs that kill my brain for 10 years and now my poors sister is having to do the same. Not to mention what the actual seizures do to our brains.

Yep.. Stay on this lifestyle long enough, and you'll no longer need the

meds. You will be able to ween yourself off of them after about 2 years

(or so..)

More to come... TGIF!!

:cool: TJ :cool:

[SwampNut]

I am

thinking about running a weekly "keto info" post in this section of the

forum.

Do it.

[SwampNut]

Sorry, shoulda been a seperate topic, not a reply. :oops:

[Little Mo]

Isn't the modern medical industry lovely? They put out their research

on ketogenic diets and list things like "ratios" and MCT oil treatments

for epilepsy.

Does the research say if there is an average level of ketones that should be in the blood?

[spEEdfrEEk]

Does the research say if there is an average level of ketones that should be in the blood?

Some studies make an attempt to say there should be, but others

don't agree. I think the jist is that you just have to have ketones

in the blood (IE: simply be ketogenic)..

I am about to start a weekly series of posts that will eventually

post everything I have collected in my 7 year period of research.

(stuff I used to post to my old health mailing list and forum..)

I will include some epilepsy stuff for you in the first weeks installment..

:cool: TJ :cool:

[Little Mo]

I will include some epilepsy stuff for you in the first weeks installment..

Thanks TJ