LOW RPM PROBLEM

[madrazcbr]

Hi All,

Need your advice on 2 problems that I am facing. A 2002 Euro Bird, done 69000 km. Valve clearance not checked yet. New spark plugs and fuel injector recently service. Air filter clean. No modification.

1) When the Bird reach 66500 km, the battery when dead on me, after a push start the bike travel for around 5 km before it when dead again. During this 5 km journey the RPM shows erratic behavior and the FI lights was on. I have changed the battery to YTZ14BS similar to the ST13 as the shop only has this model. After the change of battery I continued my journey and feel that the Bird has more power. Not sure whether the battery has affect on the power or just my feeling playing with me. After plus minus 300 km, the Bird when in low RPM, less than 4k or 3k, the Bird seems to lost power. It is not smooth like not enough petrol or something. It feels jerky and not smooth. However if I open the throttle wider I do not have problem, like when I am speeding the pick-up is good and the bike is smooth. No problem with the power delivery here only except when the rpm is low. My mechanics(no Honda distributor in my country) advice me to change spark plugs and service the injector. But the problem did not go away.

Anyone can help me on this before the mechanic ask me to change a lot of other things that might not help to solve the problem but only put a big hole in my pocket.

2) In Feb 2007, I have this problem that occurs once in a while. When idling there is a rhythmic sound like metal to metal knocking each other. sounds like "tak..tak..tak" stop and then again repeatedly. First I thought it was the CCT which I changed but the sound is still there. The noise go off when the bike start moving. However recently the noise become louder and more often especially after a hard ride or I could say when the bike is very hot after a ride or go through a jam. Holding the clutch does not help either. Have tried to use thicker oil 15-50w but it does not help.

Anybody can help to give idea on how to solve the two problem that I am facing, please.

[Para045]

First one sounds like it could be RR or stator :icon_think:

You could also check the loom for the loom problem :icon_think:

It is most prevalent in the 99-00 models but I have seen reports on the UK suites of it happening on later models as well

[EVLXX]

Just my guesses...

1) Fuel Pressure Regulator... there's another thread going about this one.

See here... http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=52947

2) Sounds like Valves... valve chatters is Rythmically out of sequence... meaning it goes something like...

Tap-Tap-tap............................Tap-tap-tap........................................Tap-tap-tap............................

Hope that helps.

[madrazcbr]

Just my guesses...

1) Fuel Pressure Regulator... there's another thread going about this one.

See here... http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=52947

2) Sounds like Valves... valve chatters is Rythmically out of sequence... meaning it goes something like...

Tap-Tap-tap............................Tap-tap-tap........................................Tap-tap-tap............................

Hope that helps.

Hi EVLXX,

Thanks for the info.

For item 1, my mechanics mentioned that it could be the fuel filter and ask me to change. He also mentioned that the valve clearance need to be check. At the same time I will ask him to check the fuel pressure regulator. By the way how do I diagnostic whether the fuel pressure regulator is working fine ?

For item 2, the mechanic is more incline on the timing chain has worn out and it is hitting against the wall. However when he open to adjust the valve clearance, he should be able to see whether the timing chain has become longer than normal.

Will send the bike to the mechanic on Saturday, if you have anything that I need to check to solve this problem, please let me know.

[Fast Eddy]

Hi All,

Need your advice on 2 problems that I am facing. A 2002 Euro Bird, done 69000 km. Valve clearance not checked yet. New spark plugs and fuel injector recently service. Air filter clean. No modification.

1) When the Bird reach 66500 km, the battery when dead on me, after a push start the bike travel for around 5 km before it when dead again. During this 5 km journey the RPM shows erratic behavior and the FI lights was on. I have changed the battery to YTZ14BS similar to the ST13 as the shop only has this model. After the change of battery I continued my journey and feel that the Bird has more power. Not sure whether the battery has affect on the power or just my feeling playing with me. After plus minus 300 km, the Bird when in low RPM, less than 4k or 3k, the Bird seems to lost power. It is not smooth like not enough petrol or something. It feels jerky and not smooth. However if I open the throttle wider I do not have problem, like when I am speeding the pick-up is good and the bike is smooth. No problem with the power delivery here only except when the rpm is low. My mechanics(no Honda distributor in my country) advice me to change spark plugs and service the injector. But the problem did not go away.

Anyone can help me on this before the mechanic ask me to change a lot of other things that might not help to solve the problem but only put a big hole in my pocket.

2) In Feb 2007, I have this problem that occurs once in a while. When idling there is a rhythmic sound like metal to metal knocking each other. sounds like "tak..tak..tak" stop and then again repeatedly. First I thought it was the CCT which I changed but the sound is still there. The noise go off when the bike start moving. However recently the noise become louder and more often especially after a hard ride or I could say when the bike is very hot after a ride or go through a jam. Holding the clutch does not help either. Have tried to use thicker oil 15-50w but it does not help.

Anybody can help to give idea on how to solve the two problem that I am facing, please.

The first problem sounds like you just needed a new battery and drive the bike at to low of an RPM. If I run below 3500RPM it lugs the motor. Check your voltage out put to be sure on the battery thing.

#2 when my bike is cold it also does a nock, nock, nock kind of noise it goes away when warm or if I raise the idle a little.

From your description it may be different things but I would try turning up the idle to 1300 to see if the gets rid of the noise.

I have been told by others with more knowledge of these thing that the nock,nock,nock is the clutch and is normal. I don't know if you have the same but worth a try.

good luck

[Crazy Dave]

Check the battery voltage, esp. at low engine speed. Not enough voltage will start all kinds of problems and the light throttle openings and very low engine load will stand out quickly.

[jon haney]

Problem #1 sounds like an electrical issue with the charging system.

Problem #2 could be the valve train, but your description of the noise is very similar to what my drive chain does when it gets a stuck or tight link. Wouldn't hurt to check.

[madrazcbr]

Hi All,

Thank you for your input.

The "tak tak tak ... tak tak tak" noise only happened during idling and the engine is really hot such as when after going thru a bad traffic jam. The bike has new sets of sprockets and chain and so the noise should not be because of it.

Will check all the suggestion given :

1) to check fuel pressure regulator although I do not know how, hope that the mechanic know how to do it.

2) check voltage when rpm is around 3000 and below

3) check valve clearance, checking the shims spacing between each other

4) check timing chain condition whether it is loose

Thanks again for your input. I hope I did not miss anything.

[mikesail]

Hi All,

Thank you for your input.

The "tak tak tak ... tak tak tak" noise only happened during idling and the engine is really hot such as when after going thru a bad traffic jam. The bike has new sets of sprockets and chain and so the noise should not be because of it.

Will check all the suggestion given :

1) to check fuel pressure regulator although I do not know how, hope that the mechanic know how to do it.

2) check voltage when rpm is around 3000 and below

3) check valve clearance, checking the shims spacing between each other

4) check timing chain condition whether it is loose

Thanks again for your input. I hope I did not miss anything.

The fuel pressure is checked by removing the small bolt that is within the larger banjo bolt fixing the high pressure hose to the tank bottom. There may be a standard adaptor to fit a gauge, I built my own.

But, you do not describe a problem that sounds like fuel pressure. First make sure your charging system is ok, you can quickly get a basic check by looking at the headlight and reving up the engine. It should get brighter. OF course a voltmeter is best.

I think your noise is most likely due to the oil getting hot and thin. It might be the balancer gears or the clutch assembly, but is probably not a big deal. Try a fresh oil change first, see if it has any effect.

As Eric said a valve noise will have a pattern of ticking and silence between. Most gear noise will have a constant beat.

[ironmike]

You said you used another model battery because that was all the shop had... I think your problem may be relatively simple and lay exposed within that statement.

Did the shop properly charge the battery before installation.. ? Done well, they should have done a slow bench charge at 1.25 - 2.0 amps for about eight+ hours (16 amp/hr battery). If they just added electrolyte, installed it, and sent you on your way - your bike was functioning only on that "fresh" surface charge from the plate/electrolyte reaction, and it couldn't last. If your charging system wasn't spinning consistently at 3.5K+, it wasn't sending an adequate charge to the battery either. Dipping below that rpm further exacerbated the problem by draining off the "surface" charge - soon enough, all sorts of glitches and gremlins rear their annoying little heads and commence to drive you crazy...

Remove the battery; you may be able to save it... Check the electrolyte level (add only distilled water if required). Bench charge the battery using a "smart" charger (that won't over-charge or "cook" the batt) at the recommended amp rate (1.25 -2.0/hr) overnight (minimum of 8 hours). Reinstall in the morning... initially test systems... Ride...

Never overlook the simple stuff...

[madrazcbr]

The bike is now in the shop.

Will check all the suggestion given :

1) to check fuel pressure regulator although I do not know how, hope that the mechanic know how to do it.

Update - the mechanic will change the fuel filter, he says that it should not be the problem with the fuel pressure regulator.

2) check voltage when rpm is around 3000 and below

Update - check the voltage during idling voltage at 12.4, rpm 2000 to 3000 voltage at 13.5, above 3000 rpm voltage at 14.2. I think this reading should be ok.

3) check valve clearance, checking the shims spacing between each other

Update - the bike is being prepared for this. Most probably on Monday the task will start.

4) check timing chain condition whether it is loose

Update - will be check together with valve clearance.