Techlusion Fuel Injection Unit... Anyone try one?

[DrDyno]

Hi All,

Looks like I won't be able to keep myself from ordering a TiForce exhaust system!

So... I am going to want to get the best A/F mapping I can get. I had a PC-III on the bike and had no luck with downloaded maps. From there I tried the dyno route. I didn't like handing my bike over to some guy with a dyno to hope he knew what he was doing... He didn't! (And... the first guy I called had no idea what a PAIR system was or whether or not I needed to disable it!) Add that to the $250-$300 dyno charge and I don't see it as something I want to try again.

Anyway, there is a unit on the market, the Techlusion (techlusion.com), that is totally adjustable by the rider and requires no software to "program." It's billed as a "Jet Kit for Fuel Injection," with 4 adjustable potentiometers. It works off of engine Load rather than RPM (manufacturer claims this is better because engine load accelerating in 2nd is -obviously- vastly different from engine load accelerating in 6th).

Anyone try a Techlusion on a 'Bird?

Thanks in advance for any input.

[shovelstrokeed]

The Techlusion units are OK, they have one major drawback for use on a Blackbird though.

They cannot remove fuel, they only add it. The Blackbird already comes mapped pretty rich, as witness its abysmal fuel consumption.

There will be many places on the stock map where you might wish to remove some fuel rather than add it. TL won't be of any help to you there.

The PCIII on the other hand, will allow you to lean the bike down in the areas where it is needed. You have to do it yourself though, the dyno centers will only provide you with a map for full throttle operation, unless you run into one that is using a brake type dyno rather than an inertial one. Best way for the guy who doesn't have 20K to drop on his very own eddy current dyno is to equip your bike with a wide band O2 sensor and a meter and then just make adjustments on the fly based on observed A/F ratio.

[mikesail]

It works off of engine Load rather than RPM (manufacturer claims this is better because engine load accelerating in 2nd is -obviously- vastly different from engine load accelerating in 6th).

The engine obviously accelerates at a different rate with a different gear, but the using the term "load" is nonsensical. A FI system is tuned correctly when the engine gets the correct mixture. This is true regardless of gear, the engine does not care what the gear is. Since the injector pulse width will be proportional to load, it is easy to imagine they have a system which adjusts by adding fuel only at the higher load levels. As Ed says, this may not be what you need.

[DrDyno]

It works off of engine Load rather than RPM (manufacturer claims this is better because engine load accelerating in 2nd is -obviously- vastly different from engine load accelerating in 6th).

The engine obviously accelerates at a different rate with a different gear, but the using the term "load" is nonsensical. A FI system is tuned correctly when the engine gets the correct mixture. This is true regardless of gear, the engine does not care what the gear is. Since the injector pulse width will be proportional to load, it is easy to imagine they have a system which adjusts by adding fuel only at the higher load levels. As Ed says, this may not be what you need.

From Techlusion.com:

You are looking at a second, and fourth gear roll-on of a stock V-rod. Fully warmed up. Notice that not only is the horsepower different but that the air-fuel graph is also different. Our competition would hope that you don't know this. Because they have RPM based technology. This means both runs are made with 100% throttle and both move through the same RPM range. Tradition map style adjustments can optimize either second or fourth, but not both.

You are forever trying to get the best of both worlds. But as you can see there is a different load placed on the engine in 2nd and 4th due to torque multiplication. The load sensing technology of the TFI adds the proper fuel to both second and fourth gear. Flattening out your fuel delivery curve.

[DrDyno]

The Techlusion units are OK, they have one major drawback for use on a Blackbird though.

They cannot remove fuel, they only add it. The Blackbird already comes mapped pretty rich, as witness its abysmal fuel consumption.

There will be many places on the stock map where you might wish to remove some fuel rather than add it. TL won't be of any help to you there.

The PCIII on the other hand, will allow you to lean the bike down in the areas where it is needed. You have to do it yourself though, the dyno centers will only provide you with a map for full throttle operation, unless you run into one that is using a brake type dyno rather than an inertial one. Best way for the guy who doesn't have 20K to drop on his very own eddy current dyno is to equip your bike with a wide band O2 sensor and a meter and then just make adjustments on the fly based on observed A/F ratio.

Thanks, Shovelstrokeed, what you recommend (O2 sensor) would certainly be the best way to go. However, I don't have the equipment, nor the technical know-how to install an O2 sensor in a titanium pipe. Any suggestions there... can any welding shop do it?

Also... wouldn't the TiForce system tend to lean out the stock settings or, does the ECU map correct back to rich? (The 'Bird is my first FI bike and my mind still operates in carburetor mode.)

[mikesail]

It works off of engine Load rather than RPM (manufacturer claims this is better because engine load accelerating in 2nd is -obviously- vastly different from engine load accelerating in 6th).

The engine obviously accelerates at a different rate with a different gear, but the using the term "load" is nonsensical. A FI system is tuned correctly when the engine gets the correct mixture. This is true regardless of gear, the engine does not care what the gear is. Since the injector pulse width will be proportional to load, it is easy to imagine they have a system which adjusts by adding fuel only at the higher load levels. As Ed says, this may not be what you need.

From Techlusion.com:

You are looking at a second, and fourth gear roll-on of a stock V-rod. Fully warmed up. Notice that not only is the horsepower different but that the air-fuel graph is also different. Our competition would hope that you don't know this. Because they have RPM based technology. This means both runs are made with 100% throttle and both move through the same RPM range. Tradition map style adjustments can optimize either second or fourth, but not both.

You are forever trying to get the best of both worlds. But as you can see there is a different load placed on the engine in 2nd and 4th due to torque multiplication. The load sensing technology of the TFI adds the proper fuel to both second and fourth gear. Flattening out your fuel delivery curve.

This is marketing gibberish. It is not a lie, but it is misleading. A fundamental problem with the inertial dyno is that it always works with transient conditions, and in this region you have the accelerator pump function adding fuel, at least for the Bird. The "load sensing" they do is not really load sense, but pulse width measurement. The normal EFI system has a throttle position and manifold pressure function, this lets the ECU know what the load is. Much more lecture possible..............

I'm just trying to say they are making some smooth talk, power commander does so as well.

[prs]

installing an 02 sensor is easy. just takes time.

you will install it at the collector as close to the 4 exhaust pipes as possible.

you will have to remove the header to do it.

you can either have a bung welded to the collector and just screw the sensor in, or you can drill a hole in the collector just big enought to screw the sensor in,

and then put a nut on it on the inside of the collector. i've done both.

then mount your 02 meter some where in your cockpit where u can watch it.

the meter requires battery voltage(tiny wire), and a ground wire.

the 02 sensor uses one wire to the meter (at least mine does)

the problem u will now have though is u need to know the throttle position and rpm to change the pc3 cells.

i installed a power commander lcd to get the throttle position information.

it is quite small, plugs into your pc3 without any additional wires, and is easy to use. got mine for 250.00.

now when you ride, you can look at your a/f meter, notice your rpm and throttle position, remember if it is rich or lean, and change it when u get home.

this will take much time and tinkering.

[cbrxxquad]

I like the innovate lm1 as it records and with the rpm deal, I can't remember what it is called, you can record 5 other things like

map

throttle position

rpm

o2

etc for 40 min and download and see what it is doing and then change your pc s

they have a little guage now that has a record button to see what the afr is and mount the recorder box remotely, like under the seat.

That is what I do.

They also have a mount for the exhaust bung that mounts to the tail pipe temporary.

and it works fine there as it is heated,,,,

[DrDyno]

Thanks to all of you for your input!

My initial post summed up my disgust with the whole PC-III idea :icon_banghead: and I was looking for a tinkerer-friendly alternative. :icon_think:

The Bad News is: Your mechanical involvement with your motorcycles is WAY beyond my tinkering quotient.

The Good News is: My bike runs great with the Jardine slip-ons!

Last question on this subject before I resign myself to my Jardines forever:

If I were to go for a full system like an Akrapovic or TiForce without any Fi tinkering, would I put my 'Bird at risk mechanically?

[porterb123]

Thanks to all of you for your input!

My initial post summed up my disgust with the whole PC-III idea :icon_banghead: and I was looking for a tinkerer-friendly alternative. :icon_think:

The Bad News is: Your mechanical involvement with your motorcycles is WAY beyond my tinkering quotient.

The Good News is: My bike runs great with the Jardine slip-ons!

Last question on this subject before I resign myself to my Jardines forever:

If I were to go for a full system like an Akrapovic or TiForce without any Fi tinkering, would I put my 'Bird at risk mechanically?

I've been riding my 2000 model for 2 years with a TiForce system and K&N air filter and no PC or any other fuel correction device. The tip of my exhaust is a dark caramel color and I get about 40 plus mpg average. So to me this setup leans out Honda's stock setup, runs like a purple raped ape and has no drawbacks so far.

[shovelstrokeed]

I would tend to agree. Seems that Honda really made the map too rich in quite a few spots. Adding an aftermarket exhaust, Yosh RS-3 slip-ons on my case, brings the A/F ratio much closer in line. Mine is still too rich at 5K RPM but much closer to right at 4-4500 now. Witness my last two tanks of gas today. First one was running through NC up I-77. Mostly around 5K RPM in 6th with a couple of mild excursions up around 6K. Fuel consumption was 36 mpg. Then I hit friggin' Virginia with their newly instituted draconian excess fee schedule on traffic violations. Speed limited to around 4.5K max and mostly around 3.5 to 4K. Result 43 mpg. 215 miles before the last bar on the fuel gauge started blinking!

Yeah, some of this is aerodynamics but, the bird is a pretty slippery package, even with Givi panniers mounted. I cannot credit a 7 mpg improvement to aerodynamics alone. I'm gonna order a PCIII this week and step one is gonna be to lean out the area between 5 and 5.5K at 20% throttle opening. I really could give a rat's ass about ultimate power for my bike. I use it for long distance tourning and with gas prices the way they are now, the payback on my 30-40K per year riding will be less than a year.

[DrDyno]

Porterb123 and Shovelstrockeed...

Thanks for the feedback... I see a full system for the 'Bird in about thirty days! :icon_thumbsup:

Regards,

John

[firedlt]

I am running the Tiforce titanium full system with a K&N I have the Teclusion system but have it turned off since the only benefit I saw was decreased fuel mileage If you want a techlusion I'll sell ya mine. with the full system I noticed a little drop in mileage over the stock system. I have an 03 bird I just checked my mileage on the way back from Hookers and from Winemucca to home I averaged around 37.6 MPG some was at a decent speed but most of the time less than 10-20 over, in Or & Wa because of the doughnut collectors.

If I was going to add a system I would go with the PCIII, because to truely dial in the teclusion system you need an O2 sensor or a exhaust gas analyzer to set it up.

I love my Tiforce not to loud and reasonable performance gain and looks good on the bird and you can keep the center stand

[DrDyno]

I am running the Tiforce titanium full system with a K&N I have the Teclusion system but have it turned off since the only benefit I saw was decreased fuel mileage If you want a techlusion I'll sell ya mine. with the full system I noticed a little drop in mileage over the stock system. I have an 03 bird I just checked my mileage on the way back from Hookers and from Winemucca to home I averaged around 37.6 MPG some was at a decent speed but most of the time less than 10-20 over, in Or & Wa because of the doughnut collectors.

If I was going to add a system I would go with the PCIII, because to truely dial in the teclusion system you need an O2 sensor or a exhaust gas analyzer to set it up.

I love my Tiforce not to loud and reasonable performance gain and looks good on the bird and you can keep the center stand

Thanks, Firedlt! Sent you a PM.

Regards,

John