ActionStarCBRxx Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 So you saw the post about the Power Commander group buy... yet us 97-98 carbed bikes can't partake since the manufactors don't make em for the carbed bikes anymore. Ignition/Spark Advance is like black magic to me... I can change a plug, tell if a plug is too rich or too lean but beyond that, its one of those things that I know little about. :icon_think: The question becomes what options do us with carbed bikes have that want to modify the timing? 1) Replace bike with FI model 2) Replace carbed system for an FI system of a damaged/wrecked blackbird 3) Score an ebay find on a PCII from another blackbird up for sale or wrecked 4) Manually change cam timing by advancing or retarding cam - Any thoughts from Engine builders on this feasability on this? 5) Find/Determine if other models of PCII will work the 97-98 blackbirds. 6) What do the guys with NOS/Turbos due if they don't have a PCII? Any thoughts or experience from anyone on this? Throw out other options if you think they are feasable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 So you saw the post about the Power Commander group buy... yet us 97-98 carbed bikes can't partake since the manufactors don't make em for the carbed bikes anymore. Ignition/Spark Advance is like black magic to me... I can change a plug, tell if a plug is too rich or too lean but beyond that, its one of those things that I know little about. :icon_think: The question becomes what options do us with carbed bikes have that want to modify the timing? 1) Replace bike with FI model 2) Replace carbed system for an FI system of a damaged/wrecked blackbird 3) Score an ebay find on a PCII from another blackbird up for sale or wrecked 4) Manually change cam timing by advancing or retarding cam - Any thoughts from Engine builders on this feasability on this? 5) Find/Determine if other models of PCII will work the 97-98 blackbirds. 6) What do the guys with NOS/Turbos due if they don't have a PCII? Any thoughts or experience from anyone on this? Throw out other options if you think they are feasable. must... resist... flaming... noob... :icon_wall: Anyway... The reason they don't make power commanders for carb'd bikes any more is: they didn't make them to begin with... because carb'd bikes, by design, do not have fuel injection, because fuel injection takes the place of carbs as a way to mix the fuel with the air before it's combusted. It's also the same reason that they don't sell jet kits for fuel injected bikes... Factory Pro sells an ignition advancer that you need to run midgrade gasoline for. Do a search in the Garage about it... It's just a different reluctor that you replace the current one and this one is rotated differently, so that it hits the ignition pick-ups sooner... that's all it does... Costs maybe $50... look at www.factorypro.com. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockmeupto125 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 So you saw the post about the Power Commander group buy... yet us 97-98 carbed bikes can't partake since the manufactors don't make em for the carbed bikes anymore. Ignition/Spark Advance is like black magic to me... I can change a plug, tell if a plug is too rich or too lean but beyond that, its one of those things that I know little about. :icon_think: The question becomes what options do us with carbed bikes have that want to modify the timing? 1) Replace bike with FI model Completely unnecessary. 2) Replace carbed system for an FI system of a damaged/wrecked blackbird Much work. Why fix what works? 3) Score an ebay find on a PCII from another blackbird up for sale or wrecked Power Commander only fits and works on fuel injected XX's. 4) Manually change cam timing by advancing or retarding cam - Any thoughts from Engine builders on this feasability on this? Its possible to do. Do NOT. It will run, but that's about it. Cam timing is NOT ignition timing. 5) Find/Determine if other models of PCII will work the 97-98 blackbirds. See answer number 3. 6) What do the guys with NOS/Turbos due if they don't have a PCII? They use the Factory Pro ignition advance units from the website/business by the same name. But instead of advancing their ignition, they retard it. While the engine is tough, using your XX to learn about ignition advance isn't suggested...by me, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionStarCBRxx Posted October 16, 2006 Author Share Posted October 16, 2006 Thanks to both of you all for not flaming the n00b. I coulda sworn back in my FJ days... they only had carbs 85-93. That there was a PCII for them and it had an ignition module. But there isn't and I must have been on crack or something. I musta been thinking about a stronger coils or something. *shrugs* I need to go back through the FJ forums. but thats an FJ and this is a bird... worlds apart. :icon_duh: Anyway, ignition/ fuel management is a voodo magic for me. Thanks for the info on the ignition advancer and the no flaming even though it probably was deserved! I can swallow pride and looking stupid to learn more about this great bike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurora Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 What can you expect to gain by changing the time while leaving the rest of the bike stock? If you do gain any power/torque, how much and at what cost in other operating RPM ranges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I think your looking for dynatek igniton module, I have one on my 97 it replaces the factory CDI so you can advance or retard the ignition. here is the link http://www.dynaonline.com/english/sportbik...a2000.htm#honda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dion Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 What can you expect to gain by changing the time while leaving the rest of the bike stock? If you do gain any power/torque, how much and at what cost in other operating RPM ranges? A lot of manufacturers retard the ignition timing in lower gears for drivability/emissions purposes. One of cheapest/easiest ways to gain power in a Suzuki is to install a TRE(timing retard eliminator). Same principle here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionStarCBRxx Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 That link to Dynatex was exactly what I was looking for!! See how one could get confused right... Dyna vs DynoJet... see how one could get confused right? *Hopes they are buying this* I should have put in more information regarding my blackbird... I can see how one would wonder what the F' I am doing messinng around with something that I can't even get the name right. The blackbird has a two brothers exhaust from the headers back. The carbs were rebuilt using a stage 1 kit. And the front sprocket is sized to get me more bottom end speed. She won't run on 87 octane gas she knocks and spits uncontrollably. I haven't tried the mid-grade, but I use super unleaded in it. And I put Sea Foam in it about every third tank. (1.5 oz per gallon). I was hoping by getting an ignition retard/advance system, that it would allow me to tune the bike a little more. Thanks agian all for the help and lack of flaming as I try and sort this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockmeupto125 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Stop right there. Tell us about the bike's history, and where you are located. Under most reasonable conditions, your '97 should run just fine on regular pump gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dion Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 What he said. It sounds like something more than slip-ons and jets were done to this bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ActionStarCBRxx Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 I don't have any history on the bike... I am the 3rd or 4th owner. The bike was originally a Texas bike. It was sold and taken up to Oklahoma registered there. I think it was sold again in Oklahoma, it was then brought back down to Texas. It sat for a bit again and I picked it up. I have had it about two years. I don't ride it that much... mainly because of the mileage and it took super unleaded to keep it from stuttering and backfiring. It gets about 28-30 mph to the gallon and at $3.00 a gallon its more expensive to ride then the other bikes. (Other bike is a YZF600 & VFR800 they get 45 mpg). So when I bought the bike, I took it to the Honda dealer, had him drain all fluids, replace the tires and replace the chain and sprockets. The front went down a tooth. (Actually it was already down a tooth, I just put back the same sprocket sizes that the previous owner had on it). It has had battery issues, where it won't hold a charge that long... meaning every couple of months, you could tell it was having trouble starting... but considering I don't ride it that much, I did not think something of it. I replaced the battery this spring. and had to charge it about a month ago. Also, I let it sit for a good couple of months while I determined what I was going to do about the suspension... so the gas sat in the tank. I dumped the tank, put in super, and ran a lot of sea foam and it cleaned it out. It got rid of the back fire and the stuttering. I ran super a couple of times, putting sea foam in about every second-third tank. It ran great. I put 5 gallon of regular unleaded (87 octane) and it started back firing and stuttering with in 20 miles. I put an octane boost and sea-foam additives in again and it got rid of the stutter and back fire. Just this last week, I think I blew the rectifier/regulator. I came to a stop light, and the bike immediatly died when I let off the throttle. About two minutes prior to the stop where it died, I noted that I lost my tachometer and speedometer. So now I am hunting down an R1/R6 rectifier to replace this one. I don't know the damage yet, as I need to get the rectifier back on before I can start it again. Let me know if you need any other information. Mechanically, I have not messed with this bike much. It's the fun bike and not the daily driver so it ends up last on the maintenance list. thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Exactly what Joe said... Hell, PeteinPA is even running regular 87 octane in his '98 WITH the ignition advancer with no problems, so you've either already got an ignition advancer in the thing, or something is wrong... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockmeupto125 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 It sounds as though; 1. You're not charging, or barely so. And your battery finally discharges to the point it can't do it. 2. Somebody already has an ignition advancer on this machine. Its a realistic mod given that it was piped and jetted. Changing the timing is relatively cheap and easy. Because its quite unusual for an XX to be sensitive to the grade of gas unless there's real altitude or quality issue, and because of the type of mods already done, I'd move forward with the suspicion that it already has an ignition advancer in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 It sounds as though; 1. You're not charging, or barely so. And your battery finally discharges to the point it can't do it. 2. Somebody already has an ignition advancer on this machine. Its a realistic mod given that it was piped and jetted. Changing the timing is relatively cheap and easy. Because its quite unusual for an XX to be sensitive to the grade of gas unless there's real altitude or quality issue, and because of the type of mods already done, I'd move forward with the suspicion that it already has an ignition advancer in it. I agree... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajjer9 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I have the 3 degree advance from Factory pro with Migs and stock jetting and I run regular gas on my 97 with no issues FWIW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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