I'm Ready for the Silly Gas

[beondwacko]

Beondwacko and I have been in serious talks about how to mount his bottles, and I did recommend the under the tank thing. I'm even considering moving my 2 pounder under there myself, as I know it will fit.

Furbird,

I was looking at that option again more closely just last week when I had the tank up. I dunno that it will fit by the looks of things. The fuel pump assembly on the FI bikes is right there hanging down from the rear of the fuel tank. It seems that the pump really cuts into the available space. Even if I were able to mount a 2 lb bottle in there, that would yeild about a full min' or 60 seconds of total spray time with a 30 shot. THat's more than enough. It's actually worth the pain in the ass to access it with that much capacity VS a 1 lb bottle. I'm going to have to lift the tank again and drop into that cavity a peice of foam and measure again. If I do have the space to put the bottle there, I'll construct a sleeve of some kind to cradle the bottle.

[blackhawkxx]

My son had a real simple 36 hp dry set-up on his 600 F4-I. He cut out part of his rear fender (above and forward of the tire a little) for the bottle, had a switch to use the horn button, put it on the dyno to make a map for the P.C. that he could switch back and forth for the street with his lap top. The thing would fly but the downside was the during the race, as the pressure and temp changed, so did his ET. It is hard to win races that way.

[beondwacko]

My son had a real simple 36 hp dry set-up on his 600 F4-I. He cut out part of his rear fender (above and forward of the tire a little) for the bottle, had a switch to use the horn button, put it on the dyno to make a map for the P.C. that he could switch back and forth for the street with his lap top. The thing would fly but the downside was the during the race, as the pressure and temp changed, so did his ET. It is hard to win races that way.

I bet his consistancy must have been all over the place for sure. What size bottle was he running in his 600?

I'm looking to spray my bike just for the fun of it on test and tune nights. My consistancy isn't so great as it is.

[sokanxx]

Thanks for the link, I am curious to how much I will have to mess with my a/f ratio. Like I said I ride the XX about 13,000 miles a year and I sure dont want to sacrafice much performance, since like you I will only be spraying the nitrous for fun everyonce and a while. I suppose if i must make the bike run too rich when I am without the NO2 it may not be worth it to me.

[beondwacko]

Thanks for the link, I am curious to how much I will have to mess with my a/f ratio. Like I said I ride the XX about 13,000 miles a year and I sure dont want to sacrafice much performance, since like you I will only be spraying the nitrous for fun everyonce and a while. I suppose if i must make the bike run too rich when I am without the NO2 it may not be worth it to me.

If you were to go with a wet kit , you wouldn't have to do anything to your A/f ratio or jetting. All the fuel is added for you by the fogger nozzles. A dry kit would not work for your application though.

[sokanxx]

so the ebay link along with a fuel pump is all i will need? I wont have to retard timing or screw with my a/f ratio?

[beondwacko]

so the ebay link along with a fuel pump is all i will need? I wont have to retard timing or screw with my a/f ratio?

Nope. Because you wouldn't run more than a 40 hp shot at most and you'll be running 93 octane fuel, you should be OK. Any more nitrous than that then you would pull 2 degrees of timing out and go one heat range colder on your spark plugs as well.

[sokanxx]

beondwacko

Thanks so much for your help! I will be jumping on this project this winter as well. I just wanted to get started now so i can do some good shopping around

[Mitch_1100xx]

beondwacko

Thanks so much for your help! I will be jumping on this project this winter as well. I just wanted to get started now so i can do some good shopping around

i run 40 shot nx wet in my xx and it works great. i also got a custom billet bracket and a purge kit. all those things i feel are important. the purge kit for obvious reasons (to clean moisture out of lines for a good solid hit) and a solid bracket, because ive heard enough horror stories of bouncing bottles and bottles being dragged by lines. you can run a good amount right out of the stock engine to with nothing done not even and exhaust. though exhaust sure helps. here is an older pic of my bik.

as you can see life is easier with a long swingarm, it solves the bottle mounting issue. and yes i use this bike as a daily rider. if you have any questions feel free to ask and i can try to help. im kinda new to this myself.

[sokanxx]

What type of quarter mile times are you turning with your nitrous? Where is thelocation of your purge valve? and also what is the red thing up on the top of the side faring? are you running your horn button as the GO! button? how did you wire that up, pictures would be helpful! thanks in advance

[beondwacko]

Setting up the horn button as the "hit" button is easy. You simply use a single pole double throw switch. You disconect the hot lead going to your horn itself and connect to one pole ( center position ) of the switch. Then if you look at the switch with that hot connected to it, the switch will allow you to send that power to one of two places at a time. So you send the power back to the horn in one postion and in the other position as the trigger signal to a good 20A+ relay in the other position. If you want ( and can find one ) you can even use a single pole / tripple throw switch and use one position of the switch to trigger a purge set up as well.

[shovelstrokeed]

My last NOS setup, being on a dedicated race bike was a bit different but worked really well.

2 lb bottle, with siphon, mounted vertically, valve up. Changed bottle after every 2 passes (I had 5).

Fogger nozzles with, depending on how fast I needed to run 16 gas, 20 fuel jets. Nozzles 45 degree mounted in the top of the intake rubbers, downstream of the throttles, at the top of the ports so they sprayed directly at the intake valves. GS 1100 head with 44mm Lectrons.

Components, solenoids, pump, bottle valve, were all from NOS.

My own progressive nitrous controller, made from a PLC, which pulse width modulated the solenoids via solid state DC relays. Left the line at 20% duty cycle and all in by 4 seconds.

Purge was handled by a separate button on the bars.

The controller also triggered an ignition retard that dropped 2 degrees in 4th gear and 2 more in 5th. It had a counter that counted the shifts (it actually did the shifting as well via the shift light driver in the ignition box), 1,2,3 automatic trans and needed to kill for the 3-4 and 4-5 shifts. Ignition was all Dyna components, fixed timing at 35 degrees of lead.

This motor was equipped with 8.5:1 pistons and a 1425cc kit as well as a slider clutch for consistency so it differs a bit from a street bike. 74" wheelbase chassis and 10" Mickey Thompson slick helped a bunch as well.

At that setup, average runs were 1.21 60 foot, 5.2 at 138 in the 1/8th and 8.20 at 160 out the back door. Bike was set up to run Top Gas with an 8.20 and would run within 3/100 of that all day. Only time I had trouble was qualifying at Gainsville where the superior traction had me running 8.0's and it took till the third and final qualifying pass to dial back the initial hit to squeek in at 8.212 with the rider chopping the throttle just before the lights.

Adam, I still have that chassis, body and bars, stop fucking around with your street bike, pick up a motor, a couple of wheels and a front end and start having some real fun. It's cheaper than a boat, but not much, and you can really get your rocks off.

[beondwacko]

Ed,

If I only had the time and money. Besides, I always liked the "sleeper / underdog". I coun't ever really go into any serious competition because of very regular inconsistancies on my behalf. I could go the full drag route on my bike with it being slammed and streched etc, but I still like to ride it comfortably a bit of distance every now and then. My goal with my bike is to be able to change it back and forth from track play trim to street trim un 30 min' or less. If I were serious about making it really fast , it would be apart by now anyway. Like I had mentioned recently, I just want to be kicked out of Moroso for going into the 9's and not being licensed to do so. I don;t even know if a 30 shot will get me into the 9's anyway. I was goingto moroso this past wednesday but I got rained out. I'm hopefull to get some mid 10.40's now that the bike is running better with the PCIII. I'll have my new chain and sprockets in a couple of weeks ( I'll be going 1 down in the front instead of 2 up in the rear ) which may help me go a little quicker as well. I supposet if I can get into the mid to high 10.30's on motor , that 30 shot shout put me into the 9's.

[shovelstrokeed]

Trust me, I know, just yankin' your chain a little, pal.

[Mitch_1100xx]

its in the 9s mid to high, depending on alot of factors. my purge valve blows out the right rear section, there are many ways to do the wireing fo this bike. you can run it off the horn or you can fab up a switch so you arnt hitting the horn, and ive even heard of ppl tripping it off of their throttle, though i can imagine that would be hard to do. the red on the upper part of the faring is the nitrous primary activation, and the purge valve release. they are located side by side. the WOT wide open throttle is up on my handlebar mounted under the horn............. for now.

the launch off the line is alot of everything. having the massive ohlins spring, and 8 inch stretch is what really gets me there, i cant describe even on a stock bike how fast you get going off the line just by doing that, for obvious reasons, because you can really hit it as hard as you want and the front has a hell of a time coming up.

[davesXX01]

Anybody here use the ZEX kit which uses a electronic activation switch signaled from the TP sensor yet?

[beondwacko]

Anybody here use the ZEX kit which uses a electronic activation switch signaled from the TP sensor yet?

It's actually not a bad idea the ZEX system. What they do is monitor the nitrous pressure and add fuel accordingly, but how the dry system works, I don't know yet.

Hey Ed,

Do you have any of those 2lb bottles left? I need one for measurement purposes. Let me know when you can.

[shovelstrokeed]

None left but the attachement should give you all the info you need

61.pdf

[Mitch_1100xx]

just curious for those of you running spray what size bottle are you using. im using a 2.5. its a perfect size i find, gives a good few passes and alot of purging.

[kallaste]

Thanks man I cant wait. take plenty of pictures please! and keep a list of the stuff you use I am anxious to get the spray on my XX.

Dude,

I just realized something. You have a 97' XX right ?? If you do, it's going to get a bit more complex. Your bike is carbed , not injected. You shouldn't be doing a dry shot on a carbed bike. You'll need to do a wet kit with fogger nozzles (4). The plumbing gets a lot more involved when you go that route. You'll need a small fuel pump, a fuel pressure safety switch, a arming switch and a hit switch, and a few other little things.

Being that my bike is an 01' , I can use a dry shot safely up 30 hp. The AIT sensor will see the instantly cold air charge ( when on the spray ) and will richen up the mixture. I can also adjust the map on my PCIII so as between 7K-11K , it can run a given percentage more rich to compensate.

+ 1 on that , no dry noz on carbed models less you want to look for a new motor afterwards!!!

[sykotek-xx]

Thanks man I cant wait. take plenty of pictures please! and keep a list of the stuff you use I am anxious to get the spray on my XX.

Dude,

I just realized something. You have a 97' XX right ?? If you do, it's going to get a bit more complex. Your bike is carbed , not injected. You shouldn't be doing a dry shot on a carbed bike. You'll need to do a wet kit with fogger nozzles (4). The plumbing gets a lot more involved when you go that route. You'll need a small fuel pump, a fuel pressure safety switch, a arming switch and a hit switch, and a few other little things.

Being that my bike is an 01' , I can use a dry shot safely up 30 hp. The AIT sensor will see the instantly cold air charge ( when on the spray ) and will richen up the mixture. I can also adjust the map on my PCIII so as between 7K-11K , it can run a given percentage more rich to compensate.

+ 1 on that , no dry noz on carbed models less you want to look for a new motor afterwards!!!

If you are injecting in the intake tubes below the TB's like was posted earlier, the AIT has no idea what you are doing since it is in the airbox and you would be injecting the gas downstream.

If you are ported into the airbox you should be OK but I would not rely on the AIT alone to richen up the mixture. The NOS kits I've installed on my FI vehicles all had a separate fuel solenoid that tapped off the schrader valve on the fuel rail. Dry kit is just that, dry, don't bank on sufficient enrichment.

[beondwacko]

If you are injecting in the intake tubes below the TB's like was posted earlier, the AIT has no idea what you are doing since it is in the airbox and you would be injecting the gas downstream.

If you are ported into the airbox you should be OK but I would not rely on the AIT alone to richen up the mixture. The NOS kits I've installed on my FI vehicles all had a separate fuel solenoid that tapped off the schrader valve on the fuel rail. Dry kit is just that, dry, don't bank on sufficient enrichment.

Injection below the throttle plates = FOGGER SYSTEM or NOZZLE

Injection into airbox = "FOGGING THE BOX"

Seperate fuel soleinoid = WET SYSTEM

Add 10-15% to the fuel curve on the PCII or III from 6.5K rpm and up and you'll be fine with up to a 50hp shot in many cases ( but not all ). Otherwise on a 1100cc or larger, keep it jetted to 30 hp or less with the dry nozzle in good close proximity and aim to the AIT.

[shovelstrokeed]

Keep in mind, also, that on an EFI bike, unless you are running a separate fuel pump and solenoid, the fuel rail prsssure is on the order of 3 bar (43 PSI). Jetting will be vastly different from that of a typical 'wet' system where the fuel pump runs at 6 or 7 PSI. Probably want to go upside down on the jets as a starting point.

Typical 'wet' system like I used to run, 4 sizes between NOS and fuel, 16 NOS, 20 fuel. I'd probably start real small and equal or maybe 20/18, something like that if I was dealing with 43 lbs of fuel pressure.

Plumbing can be pretty critical as well, especially with the low fuel pressure systems. Keep the lines to the fogger nozzles, in particular on the fuel side, short between the solenoid and the nozzles themselves. Equal length doesn't hurt if you can manage it. By all means, use some sort of distribution manifold rather than tees in the lines. I have seen bad plumbing take out good motors more than once.

[beondwacko]

Keep in mind, also, that on an EFI bike, unless you are running a separate fuel pump and solenoid, the fuel rail prsssure is on the order of 3 bar (43 PSI). Jetting will be vastly different from that of a typical 'wet' system where the fuel pump runs at 6 or 7 PSI. Probably want to go upside down on the jets as a starting point.

Somewhere on NOS's website there is supposed to be a index chart for the various jet sizes with fuel pressures applied. I just took a quick looksie to try to find it , but I ran out of patience. Yessir, you no doubt need to go noticeably smaller on the fuel side of hitting it with 42-50 psi vs 5-7 psi.