MrBadExxample Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 I've only had my 2000 XX for a month, during which time I've only put 1000 miles on it. The bike is 100% stock, with 9200 miles. Obviously I'm very new to the XX and I'm not sure what's normal behavior and what isn't. But here's my question. In 6th or 5th gear if the RPMs get below 5000, the engine seems to lack power. I can feel a slight hesitation and vibration till the RPMs get above 6000 or so, then everything feels smooth and powerful again. Here's the typical scenario where I encounter this behavior. I'll be commuting on the interstate at 80-90 MPH or so (6th gear approximately 5000 RPMs). I'll gradually slow down to 65 - 70 while I wait behind someone in the left lane. When the left lane clears I'll roll on the throttle to bring the XX back up to 80-90 mph. During which time it seems to hesitate and "chug" just a little till the RPMs get above 5500 or 6000. Is this normal? Is your XX engine able to pull from that low in the RPM range while in 5th or 6th gear? Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriartii Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 There are more versed peeps than me in this area but I am going to say you need to shift down to fourth or third. At about 6-6500 RPM in third I am doing 105mph. I have never had my bike in 6th gear yet. Kinley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBadExxample Posted August 1, 2006 Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 There are more versed peeps than me in this area but I am going to say you need to shift down to fourth or third. At about 6-6500 RPM in third I am doing 105mph. I have never had my bike in 6th gear yet. Kinley Kinley, You're right downshifting is the answer, which normally I do to keep the RPMs in a favorable part of the powerband. Perhaps I'm asking too much, but I was thinking the XX engine would pull from 4500 RPMs in top gear with no hesitation or chugging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriartii Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 No that seems a bit too low for pulling in top gear. Granted I have not been in top gear (cant afford the ticket I would get), but I notice that when in 3 it seems to chug a touch at 4500. Kinley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockmeupto125 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 All things are relative. Of course the XX lacks power below 6000 rpm...in comparison to above 6000 rpm. You should be able to accelerate cleanly and steadily from 2000-2500 up in 5th or 6th gear. Briskly, no, but steadily yes, unless you are carrying a passenger up a real steep hill. If its stumbling or uneven running, you might consider a tune-up...plugs, air filter, and some Seafoam in the tank. BTW...what's wrong with 6th gear? Some taboo thing I haven't noticed? Mine runs fine at 60 on the highway in high gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBadExxample Posted August 1, 2006 Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 All things are relative. Of course the XX lacks power below 6000 rpm...in comparison to above 6000 rpm. You should be able to accelerate cleanly and steadily from 2000-2500 up in 5th or 6th gear. Briskly, no, but steadily yes, unless you are carrying a passenger up a real steep hill. If its stumbling or uneven running, you might consider a tune-up...plugs, air filter, and some Seafoam in the tank. BTW...what's wrong with 6th gear? Some taboo thing I haven't noticed? Mine runs fine at 60 on the highway in high gear. Joe, I was hoping you'd respond, thanks. A couple of tankfuls ago I added a half can sea-foam to a full tank. I'll order an air filter and plugs today. I've been thinking about it anyway. I'm not the orginal owner and don't know the maintenance history of the bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBBXX Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Even at 80, if I'm in heavy traffic and want to grab an open spot I do it in 4th or 5th. 6th is fine at that speed if you're just coasting. Sounds totally normal to me. When I first got the bike I was getting caught in the wrong gear all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp11XX Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Since my owners manual is laying in the top of the tool box at home :icon_nono: I can't quote word for word.....but I am almost positive that mine says the 6th gear shift point is 36 mph. I know that will probably be pushing it some, but the rev limiter should handle it if you flub the shift somehow at that "extended" rpm range... Mine pulls like the gravitational field of the sun at anything above 2500 rpm.... :icon_think: ...something must be wrong with your bike.... Edit: After thinking a bit more about this, and assuming you are being serious , mine has had an annoying little dip in power (a panting sorta "gasp" is more accurate) here lately in the afternoons when it is really, really hot and humid and she has set baking in the parking lot at work all day. A hard roll on in 6th from below 4 grand get a little "chug" out of her... :icon_wall: It is not the Bird's fault! :icon_snooty: It is just shitty gas and super hot weather causing it. Once the temperature cools off and gets some cooler water vapor back in the air, she springs right on up to flipping my eyelids back when I roll on the gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockmeupto125 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 You can conjecture a lot, but its hard to tell. You may have some slop in the throttle cables, dirty air cleaner, plugs may be slightly off, etc. Don't expect the snap from 4000 rpm that you would at 7000, but it should still accelerate well from there at highway speeds. XX pulls like a big V-8. I had mine half a year before I took it above 6000 with full throttle. That was the day I found out just how hard that tank was. I still have the mark in my faceshield from hitting the windscreen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loingrader Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 i've got to say it probably needs a little work and is not normal. yea, it pulls less at 4k than at 6k, but it also pulls harder at 4k than most bikes do at 9k. this thing would only feel sluggish and underpowered (at any rpm over 2k) if you're used to riding a missile. imo -b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp11XX Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 this thing would only feel sluggish and underpowered (at any rpm over 2k) if you're used to riding a missile. Speaking of the ZZR... ...could it just be the difference in feel between the carbs you are used too and the much smoother action of the FI ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBadExxample Posted August 1, 2006 Author Share Posted August 1, 2006 From what y'all are describing, I suspect my XX is lacking some power. It sounds like it should be pulling smoother and harder than it is. My reference point is my other bike, a Kawasaki ZZR1200. In top gear the ZZR1200 pulls much better from low in the RPM range, even as low as 3000 RPMs. I know it's comparing apples and oranges, but I think the XX should be able to pull as good as the ZZR. The XX has a better power/weight ratio (1/4.19 XX vs. 1/4.58 ZZR) and the gear ratios in 6th gear are close (1.042 XX and 1.035 ZZR). I might ride with The Krypt Keeper this weekend. I'm gonna let him ride my bike for a little bit to get his opinion as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBBXX Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 i've got to say it probably needs a little work and is not normal. yea, it pulls less at 4k than at 6k, but it also pulls harder at 4k than most bikes do at 9k. this thing would only feel sluggish and underpowered (at any rpm over 2k) if you're used to riding a missile. imo -b My point of reference was an 84 1000 interceptor. At a modest 97 hp at the crank, that bike made the XX look sick at 4k. It had 5 gears and I swear it only needed 3. My first ride home on the XX was a dissapointment. I couldn't figure what all the hype was about. Unless I have severe problems with my bike as well, then what you're describing to me sounds perfectly normal. Good idea to have someone else ride the bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 From what y'all are describing, I suspect my XX is lacking some power. It sounds like it should be pulling smoother and harder than it is. My reference point is my other bike, a Kawasaki ZZR1200. In top gear the ZZR1200 pulls much better from low in the RPM range, even as low as 3000 RPMs. I know it's comparing apples and oranges, but I think the XX should be able to pull as good as the ZZR. The XX has a better power/weight ratio (1/4.19 XX vs. 1/4.58 ZZR) and the gear ratios in 6th gear are close (1.042 XX and 1.035 ZZR). I might ride with The Krypt Keeper this weekend. I'm gonna let him ride my bike for a little bit to get his opinion as well. Might ride? you better bring your ass out to play I noticed on mine at 8500 miles that she wasn't starting right up and would crank for a second or two and also wasn't feeling up to par power wise. At 8900 I pulled my plugs and replaced them. To my surprise the center electrode was almost non exsistant Changed plugs and everything was back to normal. I am at around 19k miles now and still doesn't show the same signs. I will probably pull my plugs again at 20k and check while I do my normal maintance and inspection of stuff not easily during a normal preshift inspection. Will tell you this. I run nothing but 87 gas in my bird. If I run 93 shes buzzy in the bars and pegs. With me currently running with my pipes, filter and PCIII usb mapped out she runs like a raped ape. Also when riding at a spirited pace I no longer have to shift down as much and don't carry the RPM's as high as before. I was going to do a sprocket change tp help have more useable power, but now with my map and setup she has the usable power where I like it.. also pull your tank and check for your filter for any signs of mice taking up shop somewhere in there.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockmeupto125 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Trading rides would be a good reference point. Doesn't the Kawie have accelerator pumps? That might account for the difference in what you are feeling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davesXX01 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Add some Seafoam! 'Nuff said Really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Change the oil also if you don't know what the maintance history was. Might be the same filter and oil thats been sitting in her since she was bought brand new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 Install a properly mapped PCII. That should straighten up the midrange for ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slinger5150 Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 All things are relative. Of course the XX lacks power below 6000 rpm...in comparison to above 6000 rpm. You should be able to accelerate cleanly and steadily from 2000-2500 up in 5th or 6th gear. Briskly, no, but steadily yes, unless you are carrying a passenger up a real steep hill. If its stumbling or uneven running, you might consider a tune-up...plugs, air filter, and some Seafoam in the tank. BTW...what's wrong with 6th gear? Some taboo thing I haven't noticed? Mine runs fine at 60 on the highway in high gear. +1. I use 6th all the time on the highway. Makes the tank last longer. It only takes half a second to click down twice and go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetfixxr Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 All things are relative. Of course the XX lacks power below 6000 rpm...in comparison to above 6000 rpm. You should be able to accelerate cleanly and steadily from 2000-2500 up in 5th or 6th gear. Briskly, no, but steadily yes, unless you are carrying a passenger up a real steep hill. If its stumbling or uneven running, you might consider a tune-up...plugs, air filter, and some Seafoam in the tank. BTW...what's wrong with 6th gear? Some taboo thing I haven't noticed? Mine runs fine at 60 on the highway in high gear. +1. I use 6th all the time on the highway. Makes the tank last longer. It only takes half a second to click down twice and go! So far i have had my '97' for 1k miles, and on the highway cruising in 6th low rpm's, fine for sipping fuel, 38 mpg, however to get away from the asshole tailgater, drop 2 cogs and the bullet is ripping. At highway speed not too far over the limit, 70-80, the bird will "bog" a little in 6th, i am only taching 4.5k maybe, but like i said drop 2 cogs and hang on for the ride. Jet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott s. Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 this is not normal for my 01 bird.from 65 to 165 she pulls like a freight train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shovelstrokeed Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 First off, that is probably normal. The XX is a bit flat below about 6K RPM but wakes up nicely above that. Indicated mph is off by about 8% as well so your not going as fast as you think. BTW, Moriarity, 6500 RPM in 3rd is 71 mph, Takes about 9600 RPM to do 105, unless you have some freakish gear on the bike. Mine will pull evenly, if not in an inspiring way, from well below 3K RPM in 6th which is about 50 mph. Mine also gets a bit buzzy in and around 4200 RPM so I usually downshift if the revs drop below that on the highway. I recently did about 1/2 a tank in 5th gear at 85 mph and got no difference in fuel milage between that and running in 6th leading me to think the bike may like to run higher RPM's rather than lower. Makes sense, more or less, power required ot maintain 80 or better is a function of aerodynamics by that point. Making the same thrust at the rear wheel with a smaller throttle opening due to the increased torque of the lower gear. My standard solution for a quick pass from 80 or so is kick it down 2 and nail it. I like the feel as the cams come in and the ram air really starts doing its thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 XX powerband is top end heavy and locks strong midrange.That 6-7 K rpm hit is very nice but it also means there is not whole lot of power below that point.I feel that open class sportbike should have better midrange. Anyone who sampled recent liter bikes will know what I`m talking about.You just twist the throttle and go on those bikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shovelstrokeed Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Anyone who sampled recent liter bikes will know what I`m talking about.You just twist the throttle and go on those bikes. You can get the XX to perform like that too. All you have to do is get 100 or so pounds off it and you'll have near parity. Updating port shapes, combustion chambers, ignition and valve timing and compression ratio could help as well. Face it, we are looking at a 10 year old, at least, design here. Things have moved on in the world of fast motorcycles and Honda has chosen, from the look of it, to not participate until the next time they decide to show the world what they can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 Making the same thrust at the rear wheel with a smaller throttle opening due to the increased torque of the lower gear. It's been gone over before, and I don't want to hijack his thread, but a smaller throttle opening at higher rpm to make the same power, gets worse fuel mileage (unless you've got something funny going on with mixture). Ideally, for fuel mileage, you'd like to be WOT at your cruising speed, so the engine is at its most effecient at steady state, again, unless it' WAY rich at WOT... FWIW, I've got an 18t, and I get ~3mpg better than I did... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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