Alpha Crow Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Appears I stripped the oil drain bolt on my g/f's SV650. Seems my 18" torque wrench doesn't correctly at the low end of the scale (14 ft/lbs). Didn't even turn it hard, just got it snug and gave it one last half turn to wait for the wrench to click... and the bolt started turning easy. Blows me away how easy it went out. #$(*)@$ thing. Anyway, anybody ever do this? How much do new plugs run? I'm super praying that it didn't damage the threads on the engine block. I didn't turn it THAT hard by a long shot, but... leave it to me. Felt like it would back out a bit, so I'm thinking I can get it out. Advice/comments/flames? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warchild Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 From your description, concur that you've probably stripped the threads in your oil pan. It's likely Heli-Coil time for you, mate...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Crow Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 I'm afraid to look, lol. It's staying oil tight so far and I put some clean towels underneath to watch for any drips over the next week. If it stays, I'm going to leave it until the next change. I found the drain plugs for about 13 bucks. I got in there with a non-torque wrench and felt it, it feels like it's very snug, so maybe it's not badly damaged (or so I hope). I don't suppose they purposely make the drain bolts out of softer metal than the block? That would make sense to me.... Seems like making a rifle barrel bore punch out of titanium-steel alloy. Irks the hell out of me... I hate to waste a good oil change to check the bolt, but hate to bite my fingernails for the next 3000 miles to see if I damaged the pan threads. Anyone want in on a class action lawsuit on the torque wrench manufacturer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccriderXX Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 It's likely Heli-Coil time for you, mate...... Yes the pan is the soft aluminum and drain plug is probably steel. But a heli-coil isn't that hard to do. You just have to drill the hole slightly larger to the outer size of the heli-coil, tap it, then screw the heli-coil into the threads. I guess I would worry about getting aluminum chips in the pan when drilling. I have used things called keenserts that are similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 You are not the first one on this board to do this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MileHi Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 So, you say that N1K gave you instructions on how to do an oil change??? :icon_doh: Don't listen to himwhenhe trys to tell you how to fix it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shovelstrokeed Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Your problems may only be starting. First a little zing. Your torque wrench is probably 1/2" drive and goes to either 150 or 225 lb/ft. Torque wrenches are designed to be most accurate when used in their mid-range. At 14 lb/ft you are in the bottom of the range and shouldn't expect anything like accuracy there. 2% of full scale in the mid range would be a pretty good one and, at that, I would only expect that accuracy on a recently calibrated tool that has been properly stored. You could easily have been off by 5 lb/ft in that range which is 30% of the required torque. Next time just use a 1/4" or 3/8" drive ratchet and a socket to install the plug. With a new washer, finger tight and a little grunt is all you need. OK, back to your problem. Chances are the threads are buggered in the, hopefully, oil pan or cases. Oil pan, you are lucky and can remove the pan to keep chips and such out of the engine. Cases and you have some work on your hands. The reason the plug feels tight now is that the threads are galling (steel in aluminum) and will likely be destroyed the next time you remove the plug. Good news is you sometimes can fit an oversized plug, available at a good auto parts store like NAPA. Bring your old plug down and see what they can do for you. They may even have a kit with a tap. You are not the first guy on the block to do this. If drilling and/or tapping is needed, pack the flutes of the tool with heavy grease like a wheel bearing grease, available at the same source. That will help in keeping chips and swarf out of the crankcase. Slow and easy with the drill, using very light pressure and stopping a couple of times to clean and renew the grease. An hour or so of cussin' and maybe a cold beer at the end and you should be good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 You may also be a victim of the last oil change. If someone before you over torqued it, you found it. I have always felt that the threads on the plug helped retain the oil, not just the head on the washer. If so, Helicoils may not be the best choice. Most Helicoils have open threads. There are many case-saver inserts out there which will work. You might check at a local small airport for a A&P mechanic. Aircraft engines get failures like this often, and due to the expense involved, most A&P have the tools to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobicus Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Good news is you sometimes can fit an oversized plug, available at a good auto parts store like NAPA. Bring your old plug down and see what they can do for you. They may even have a kit with a tap. You are not the first guy on the block to do this. Ask Nik how well the oversize drain plugs work... :icon_doh: The proper answer is to replace the pan, but I was just trying to find an oil pan on Ron Ayers, and I can't seem to figure out how Suzuki organizes their stuff. :icon_duh: My opinion is that you should either tap it out to the next largest size, or Helicoil it. I would not worry about the metal from tapping it out, but if you really are concerned, take some of the old oil (or a fresh quart or so of new stuff) and pour it through to flush it. Note that the first thing the oil does when it's sucked up by the sump is head to the filter anyways. If you're worried about leaks through the Helicoil threads.. maybe coat them with black RTV.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Crow Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 Thanks for the info so far. I've been reading on a kit that will retap it with a slightly larger plug. I felt pretty bad about tearing up someone else's bike (cough, glad it's not mine, cough!), but my g/f mentioned the mechanic that took care of it was a very sloppy guy. Come to think of it, that's the same guy that changed out my chain and didn't adjust the tightness. Says it doesn't matter. Wouldn't suprise me if the threads were damaged already, but just to be sure I'll use the regular 3/8 drive ratchet to feel it myself rather than trust a torque wrench with something so soft. Didn't know they have failures near the bottom end (this one went down to 10, so bottom setting +4 is pretty low). Well, right now just checking for oil leaks while looking at my best and relatively cheap options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonox Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 the answer is easy! suzuki cheesecake strikes again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denovich Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 One other option is Permatex's Form-a-Thread. It's made to repair the kind of boo-boo you made. It's a two-part epoxy, with a release agent. Put the epoxy on the threads, the release agent on the plug, and screw them togther. When it cures, remove, clean and re-torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Crow Posted July 8, 2006 Author Share Posted July 8, 2006 After a incredibly frustrating day, the results are in: It's a 14mm hex bolt with a 12mm threads (at 1.25). The next metric size up is 14mm, which is substantially bigger. Looking at standard, there is 1/2 inch. Sounds appealing, though I'm unsure if there is enough left over metal to cut grooves into (I think it's like .87 thicker than 12mm). Give it a try, right? If it doesn't take, I just go to the 14mm anyway. Well, they apparently don't sell a 1/2 @ 20 tap and all oil plug replacements easily found are 1/2 @ 20... all easily found taps are 1/2 @ 13. Sears, autzone, O'Reilly's, etc. Nobody carries a crossover. In the end, I found a piggyback drain plug at 12mm by 1.25 that was oversized. After 2 hard attempts, several visits to stores in search of the 1/2 stuff, I came back and one last attempt before the drilling began, it took. I'm not overly satisfied, it's an ugly fix. Caused shavings that I can only get out by running oil through it (which I did), and I can never take it out (have to use the piggy back bolt to let oil out). On the good side, if it holds, I can't mess up the threads anymore. Need advice from tapping wizards... would a 1/2 work? I'll just find it and keep it on favorites in case the oversize bolt fails and I'll order it and get it going. Or do I just need the 14mm? Also, my friend who builds old hotrods for a living looked at the threads with me after pulling the plug out the first time, you can see it was crossthreaded at one time from the slashes through the threads. I should've looked at it when I changed the oil. I'm about sure the shop did it that we bought it from, the mechanics there are kinda sloppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1K Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 OH GOD THE FLASHBACKS!!!! :icon_pray: :icon_pray: :icon_pray: :icon_pray: I had a $3000 oil change last year. First, the bolt was MEGA MEGA tight when I went to take it off... So I either cracked the oil pan trying to break the bolt loose, OR I cracked it when I went to put in the self-taping oversized drain plug. But when I put the bolt back in I stripped the shizzle nizzle out of it. Aluminum sucks! After all was said and done I had to drop the headers and put on a new oil pan... went on a spending spree at Sears and spent $3000 on tools so I wouldn't try doing things with inadequate tools anymore. I chalked it up to a learning experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpha Crow Posted July 8, 2006 Author Share Posted July 8, 2006 Oh, I can top this. It's an sv650s... it has not oil pan... it's all part of the crankcase. You break this... you bought a crankcase for about $1500. Plus all the work changing it out and break in and problems from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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