arcticflipper Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Looking for some more power and speed on the XX, now there's a couple of Q's and options that is available. PC3? Is it really worth spending the cash on this or does it not really improve performace that much? Big-Bore kit? Worth the cash and what is the problems that goes with this upgrade? What else is out there that I can do to improve the XX? I really like the 02 XX that I currently have, but it is starting to get a bit slow now. I've allready done and played with gearing, but I still prefer to get better milage than top end. I've also noticed that I can't seem to hit the redline in 6th gear, even when I'm hanging on the cable. I've not yet been able to resolve this. I know there was talk about fitting S2000 car injectors, and that they were the exact same as the XX uses, but with a stronger flow. Has anyone done this before? What was the problem if any with this upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I just recently added me a PCIII USB to my 02' (Already have a K&N, and Leo Vince Pipes) didn't think it would really see a big difference overall but I was wrong. I have put about 1500 miles on it since putting on my PCIII. First thing I instantly noticed was the throttle responce.. Simply blistering response from the throttle.. Next test run was done and she still pulls like a freight train when you gun her ass. She doesn't seem to bog down as much as before when just tooling along in higher gears on the backroads.. No more excessive carbon buildup on the end of my exhaust pipes.. Gas mileage increased also buy a couple miles per gallon.. Not really a big deal but hey it did increase. Get one and have it tuned for your bike, even an all stock bike can benefit from having a properly tuned PC on it.. Also its alot cheaper and quicker to install than buying new injectors and also doing a big bore kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XX4me Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Looking for some more power and speed on the XX, now there's a couple of Q's and options that is available. PC3? Is it really worth spending the cash on this or does it not really improve performace that much? Big-Bore kit? Worth the cash and what is the problems that goes with this upgrade? What else is out there that I can do to improve the XX? I really like the 02 XX that I currently have, but it is starting to get a bit slow now. I've allready done and played with gearing, but I still prefer to get better milage than top end. I've also noticed that I can't seem to hit the redline in 6th gear, even when I'm hanging on the cable. I've not yet been able to resolve this. I know there was talk about fitting S2000 car injectors, and that they were the exact same as the XX uses, but with a stronger flow. Has anyone done this before? What was the problem if any with this upgrade. Well adding S2000 injectors won't do anything unless you also add more air either through a big bore kit or a turbo. I may have the numbers off somewhat but if you stay naturally aspirated and don't put on a big bore kit you will only gain maybe 5-8 horses maxx. That would be installing a pipe and PCIII. You can do a 2mm overbore with increased compression and pipe and probably end up in the 165hp range. If you go all out and do the bigbore kit like Northman did you could gain as much as 65 horsepower. If you opt for the turbo you can move into the 250-300hp range fairly easily. Another option would be to spray Nitrous which might give you as much as 50 horsepower pretty safely and easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilisht2003 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 big bore is a pain in the ass....unlike most bikes you cant remove just the cylinders off the XX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcticflipper Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 The problem I'm having is that I'm getting dropped in the twisties by smaller bikes, and well bigger bikes too. This is due to the fact that the XX only starts to pull from 7K up, and normally in the Mpumalanga area in South Africa there isn't enough room to hit the 7K mark before you need to grab a handfull of brakes and put the bike into the next turn. When the sweepers comes up nothing sticks to the XX, high speed 250+ kph, but it's the quicker turns that gets too me. Initially I thought that I wasn't riding the bike correctly, and thus took the bike to the track. We have 4 groups running, starting from novice - Group D to racer boys group A. After the first 20min session I got bumped straight to Group B. Fuck me but that's hectic riding. I managed to stick with them for about 5 laps, after which I couldn't feel my arms or close my hands. This Bitch is just way to fucxking heavy for that shit. Now is there anything else that I could do to gain more low-down power? Even a fucking BMW RT ran away from me through the first 3 gears, after which I could only haul his ass back on the sweeps. I've used a 18 front and 45 rear, 18 front and 50 rear even, but still get my ass handed to me on the tighter stuff. I know the XX isn't really suppose to ever be able to compete with lighter bikes in the corners, but I sure as hell would like to give it a damn good go. I like the bike just way too much to accept that it's getting a beating here. If I use gas would the bike still be ridable? or will it now become more of a straight line bullet than anything else. I must say that there isn't normally a lot of time to do anything between the turns here, constant body movement and pushing to get the bike in the correct line. I must say that the Busa is no match for the XX when it comes to handeling these turns. The Busa's front wheel keeps on drifting in every corner. I will post a small vid of the roads and turns I'm talking about. This might give you guys more info on what I need and are writing about. Does anyone have a PC3 they want to get rid off? for an 2002 European model. PLEASE http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/Arc...¤t=b8805cca.flv http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/Arc...¤t=7e87093b.flv http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/Arc...¤t=bd38f1e7.flv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaSilverBird Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Can you make more horse power by somehow forcing more air into the airbox? Like with custom or modified ram air intakes or something of that nature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockmeupto125 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I've used a 18 front and 45 rear, 18 front and 50 rear even, but still get my ass handed to me on the tighter stuff. In the US, standard issue is 17/45, and a lot of people go with the 16 tooth front, which would be equivalent to 18/51. Just as a basis of comparison for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaSilverBird Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 you could also learn to work with composites like carbon fiber and drop some weight on the XX. I plan to lose between 20 and 35+ lbs. (just guestimating here) by replacing all the fairings, rear subframe, maybe the fairing stay, maybe centerstand (of course that can just be removed too), rider and passenger steps, undertail, and maybe other misc. metal items like fasteners, brackets and some components in the mirrors etc. I might think about a CF tank as well (that would definitely lose quite a few pounds) but im not sure I want to run the risk of it cracking on me in a crash and have gas spill everywhere. Alternatively in this arena, once I get the hang of it you could pay me to do it for you Just the fairings would cost 1300-2000+ professionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 OR... If you were just getting wasted in the twisties by smaller bikes and were already getting your knee down in almost every corner, I'd suggest getting a smaller bike... The XX is what it is. You aren't going to make it act like a supermoto or a 600 supersport in the tight stuff, no matter how hard you try... In fact, you may be better off getting a 600 SS bike or a supermoto with all the money you'd spend on the XX to try and be almost as fast in the tight stuff (especially with parts prices in south africa), but still being ~50lbs overweight and 6" too long... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XX4me Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Sounds like you need a combination here. Maybe drop some weight with a 4-1 pipe, loose the center stand. The easiest bump in power, not sure how much though, might come from milling the head a few thousands to push the compression up one point to 12.5:1. You might also gain some by looking at the cams since you'd have them out anyway. All this might net you 10-15 horses. I'm not sure the gas would help you with what you describe, it might cause the front to wash out on the exit when the power came on. Have you dropped the forks and added the 6mm spacer under the rear shock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XX4me Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 I watched some of your video and the first thing that comes to mind is you are going to get killed DRIVING ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD LIKE THAT!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Articflipper, If I remember my threads, you have already done the 6mm, and lots of work on the forks. Didn't you say you were also on the light side, compared to most of us 200 lb+ riders? I am no speed demon, but riding a XX then a 600 cc bike has shown me that small and light is fast. You may have already seen the Empire video. Watch how those 650 motards close the gap so quick. I know there will be one in my future. Thanks for the videos, but get on the right side of the road. Empire at Deals Gap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcticflipper Posted June 8, 2006 Author Share Posted June 8, 2006 Thanks for the info guys. Is there any way of getting more power below 7K rpm? Would a PC3 give me this option? Or is the only real solution looking towards the BIg bore Kit? I have done the 6mm shim on the rear and yip, a bit of work on the front forks. The XX handles like a dream, and once you've picked a line and stuck it in there it doesn't drift, wallow or do anything funny. Even 2-up it just sits there and runs the line with confidence. Even fully loaded with panniers and a pillion it's still holding each line perfectly. Obviously at a little bit slower speeds than whithout the panniers. I really do like the comfort of the XX, I just can't see myself on a crotch rocket. Is it possible to move the power curve from 7K rpm down to like 5K rpm with a Power Commander? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Is it possible to move the power curve from 7K rpm down to like 5K rpm with a Power Commander? Uh. Why not just downshift? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Thanks for the info guys. Is there any way of getting more power below 7K rpm? Would a PC3 give me this option? Or is the only real solution looking towards the BIg bore Kit? I have done the 6mm shim on the rear and yip, a bit of work on the front forks. The XX handles like a dream, and once you've picked a line and stuck it in there it doesn't drift, wallow or do anything funny. Even 2-up it just sits there and runs the line with confidence. Even fully loaded with panniers and a pillion it's still holding each line perfectly. Obviously at a little bit slower speeds than whithout the panniers. I really do like the comfort of the XX, I just can't see myself on a crotch rocket. Is it possible to move the power curve from 7K rpm down to like 5K rpm with a Power Commander? Arctic my guess is that if you go for the PC3 - slipons, you 'll get a more linear powerband. Do not forget that they have to be set-up on a dyno whith a gas analyzer. I run stock euro gearing (17-44) and at low revs I have more torque than my friend's stock 2004 busa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew69442 Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 The problem I'm having is that I'm getting dropped in the twisties by smaller bikes, and well bigger bikes too. This is due to the fact that the XX only starts to pull from 7K up, and normally in the Mpumalanga area in South Africa there isn't enough room to hit the 7K mark before you need to grab a handfull of brakes and put the bike into the next turn. When the sweepers comes up nothing sticks to the XX, high speed 250+ kph, but it's the quicker turns that gets too me. Initially I thought that I wasn't riding the bike correctly, and thus took the bike to the track. We have 4 groups running, starting from novice - Group D to racer boys group A. After the first 20min session I got bumped straight to Group B. Fuck me but that's hectic riding. I managed to stick with them for about 5 laps, after which I couldn't feel my arms or close my hands. This Bitch is just way to fucxking heavy for that shit. Now is there anything else that I could do to gain more low-down power? Even a fucking BMW RT ran away from me through the first 3 gears, after which I could only haul his ass back on the sweeps. I've used a 18 front and 45 rear, 18 front and 50 rear even, but still get my ass handed to me on the tighter stuff. I know the XX isn't really suppose to ever be able to compete with lighter bikes in the corners, but I sure as hell would like to give it a damn good go. I like the bike just way too much to accept that it's getting a beating here. If I use gas would the bike still be ridable? or will it now become more of a straight line bullet than anything else. I must say that there isn't normally a lot of time to do anything between the turns here, constant body movement and pushing to get the bike in the correct line. I must say that the Busa is no match for the XX when it comes to handeling these turns. The Busa's front wheel keeps on drifting in every corner. I will post a small vid of the roads and turns I'm talking about. This might give you guys more info on what I need and are writing about. Does anyone have a PC3 they want to get rid off? for an 2002 European model. PLEASE http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/Arc...¤t=b8805cca.flv http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/Arc...¤t=7e87093b.flv http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e330/Arc...¤t=bd38f1e7.flv All of your info seems like you have considerable time documenting your riding but when you stated that and RT is running away from you this throws a flag. I ride often (& aggressively) with a couple RT's and this does not happen NOT EVER! And the only performance item on my 02 is a K&N air filter. So with that said do you have another Bird available to do a performance comparison with?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I gotta throw up a big "+1" with the "just downshift" crowd... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmacza Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 You gotta remember that Arctic and I are 7000ft above mean sea level... that might be a factor, but dropping a gear and wicking it sounds far more sensible - also, drop to a 16 tooth front sprocket for better pull out corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 You gotta remember that Arctic and I are 7000ft above mean sea level... that might be a factor, but dropping a gear and wicking it sounds far more sensible - also, drop to a 16 tooth front sprocket for better pull out corners. an FI bird should compensate for that should it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 You gotta remember that Arctic and I are 7000ft above mean sea level... that might be a factor, but dropping a gear and wicking it sounds far more sensible - also, drop to a 16 tooth front sprocket for better pull out corners. an FI bird should compensate for that should it? Up to a point, surely is better than carbs but you still loose power because there is less air available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmacza Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Up to a point, surely is better than carbs but you still loose power because there is less air available. About 17% less air - the only way to compensate effectively is forced induction. Or buy a ZX14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcticflipper Posted June 8, 2006 Author Share Posted June 8, 2006 What will I lose if I drop 1 teeth in front to go to a 16? Will I lose top end, how much and then also what will the fuel economy be like? I'm currently battling to hit the redline in 6th gear, so if I drop down to a 16 I think I would be able to bounce if off the revlimiter. Shouldn't lose too much topend, or am I wrong here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XX4me Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 OK the 7000 ft above sea level explains alot. Yes you will be way down on power. That also explains the reluctance of the bike to hit redline in 6th gear. Less power equals less ability to overcome wind resistance. Unfortunately unless you add a supercharger or a turbo I doubt a PCIII and a pipe will help very much. Nitrous would probably be your best bet. With gas you would be adding oxygen which is what your missing at high altitude. You could probably set it up as a 20 shot or so which might put you back where the XX is at sea level. When I rode with the XX nuts at Cody WY, around 6000ft, a few years ago I was really surprised that I couldn't get the front end up. When we did the Bear Tooth pass, some of the VERY BEST TWISTIES I've ever seen, I tried to keep the RPMs up around 6000 entering the corner so I'd be right in the middle of the power on exit. Seemed to work pretty good so it may be that you just need to run closer to redline. Don't worry it won't hurt the bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmacza Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 What will I lose if I drop 1 teeth in front to go to a 16? Will I lose top end, how much and then also what will the fuel economy be like? I'm currently battling to hit the redline in 6th gear, so if I drop down to a 16 I think I would be able to bounce if off the revlimiter. Shouldn't lose too much topend, or am I wrong here? Arctic, there was very little difference in economy between a 17-tooth front and a 16-tooth. Biggest difference is power wheelies at 7k revs being easy (and I'm a little bigger 'n you) and lofting the front in 2nd for giggles is doable. I went down to Arniston with the bike and stripies out of bends in 2nd and 3rd are easy... at sea level she's an animal but up here at 2000m she's merely great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2equis Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I gotta throw up a big "+1" with the "just downshift" crowd... Mike +1 I never go under 5k in the twisties - power is never a problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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