Furbird Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 OK, today I went to a funeral. No biggie, except it was an 80 mile long procession with over 150 bikes going less than 35 MPH in 85 degree weather. In other words, lights on and fan running the whole time. So, when we get to the gravesite, my battery is dead. I mean like makes one rotation of the starter and then NOTHING dead. Here's the weird thing, I pushed it off and started riding back, and weird stuff started happening. First, the headlight started winking like it had a modulator on it, then shut off. Then the tach shut off. The fan shut off for a while, but when the bike got close to the red, it came back on and shut off the speedo. When all was said and done, everything on the bike was shut off except for the fan, including all lights, both main gauges, indicator lamps, THE CLOCK, and the bike was hiccupping. Now the easy answer is that the bike started going into limp mode and shutting down unneccessary stuff to keep the engine running, then started cutting power (hiccupping) to save itself from unneccessary RPM's since the temps were so high. Yeah, keep dreaming. Something is WRONG is what I say. So I get home, put the battery charger on it for a couple of hours, and everything is back to normal. So, here's the questions. Obviously the battery was dead, but why did it start sequentially shutting stuff down? Does anybody make an upgraded battery for our bikes (I currently have a Yuasa)? Does anybody make an upgraded stator/alternator/whatever Honda calls it to up amperage output? Does the R1 rectifier help cure this issue? Bike is a 99 FI, no Power Commander. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2equis Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 How old is the battery? If it's older than 2 years I'd replace IMHO. Also, pull the connector off the regulator and inspect it for melting, charring etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02XXCA Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I ran my battery dead last year at the MotoGP race idiling on my way into the track. The bike was running the fan the whole time. I pulled the headlight plug and pushed started my bike to do the Parade lap and then by the time I was back to the motel the bike had recharged the battery enough to start up again and never had a lick of trouble. I never swapped my battery as it appeared to hold a charge and all the tests showed that my reg/rec was working properly. I have since added water wetter and have installed an HID headlight which reduced the amp draw while idiling even more. One other trick I think is to increase the idiling RPM to the point where the alternator is putting out a tad more voltage than the low RPM setting would be. And thanks again to Hugo who offered to bring me a battery, charger and assist in any way possible to keep a fellow rider runnning. Chris Bike is an 02 with original battery and 45K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganDonor Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Hopefully this will never be a problem for me.... 1. I have the R1 Regulator/Rectifier 2. HID 3. I have the euro switch, so I can shut down just the headlight, or the headlight PLUS all the running lights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flitemdic Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 BAH- she didn't let you down, you let her down- abuse, abuse, abuse. (J/K) Mine did the same thing awhile back. Old battery, added farkles. Replaced battery, problem solved for now. From the answers others gave me awhile back, you may already have the higher output stator, I think 99 was the year they changed up. I don't think the R1 R/R makes it any better, but check your voltage outputs at idle and about 3000-4000 RPM. I think the book says somewhere around 14.5 at the higher RPM. (I'm saying "I think" alot, becuase I'm at work, and don't have my references with me.) The things you're describing though, are definately the 'bird being smart about herself. Mine shut everything down, RPM and Speedo first, lights next, fan and then just stopped running. IMHO though, change out the battery first. You've got a good one. The YUASA is what I've got now, from a cheaper initial battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBBXX Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Two points If your Stator was going to blow, that would have been the time. A totally dead battery is one hell of a stress on the system. The older and more deteriorated its condition, the more it looks like a short. (more current draw) So everyone is right here. if it's more than a couple of years old, invest in another. L/A batteries never recover fully once they have been totally drained BTW, although that doesn't necessarily mean it's NFG. A higher capacity O/P most likely would not have changed your outcome if the RPM was not high enough to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajjer9 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Damn bud sounds like the ole rectifier regulator went out on ya...they hate heat ya know. The low voltage causes most if not all of your symptoms. If you need your bike I have a new R1 regulator for a spare at the house or you can pick up one from honda. but once you get the R/R replaced check the stator before you start it. Check continuity from one yellow to the other until you have done all 3. If you have infinity on any leg its burned open. If all is well there then check from each yellow to ground. You should have NO continuity there. Let me know if I can help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbarr78 Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I would sell it and buy a Harley then you won't have to worry about stupid fans and coolant and radiators or all that electronic crap. Just you and the machine out on the open road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furbird Posted May 18, 2006 Author Share Posted May 18, 2006 I guess I should have mentioned that the battery is less than a year old. I charged it up last night on the trickle charger and everything worked good. The thing that really scared me is that I do have a HID, and it started flickering, which will kill them in a heartbeat. I couldn't exactly get off, shut off the bike, and unplug it with everything already shutting down, so I flicked on the high beam to shut off the HID. Of course, all that did was kill the HID and the high beam in about 30 seconds, but it saved my HID. I'm seriously thinking about gutting my old jumppack and putting that gel cell battery in front of my ECM and using it for situations like this. When you don't have access to a jumppack, just permanently install the damn thing on the bike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Spoke with a Yuasa rep at Atlanta IMS. Sorry I don't have our origional battery number in front of me, but he said instead of 12____- battery there was a 14_ _ _ battery that had the same package size, but more cranking amps. I have been lucky so far, battery almost 5 years old. I do ride at least 2 hours a week, and have my idle set to 1200 rpm to keep the output higher at idle. The rep said that since these are sealed batterys, they may age on the shelf. He recomended purchasing from a larger dealer, who should have higher turns, and lower shelf life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02XXCA Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Hopefully this will never be a problem for me.... 1. I have the R1 Regulator/Rectifier 2. HID 3. I have the euro switch, so I can shut down just the headlight, or the headlight PLUS all the running lights. Is the euro switch plug and play? Just swap out the left top half? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganDonor Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Hopefully this will never be a problem for me.... 1. I have the R1 Regulator/Rectifier 2. HID 3. I have the euro switch, so I can shut down just the headlight, or the headlight PLUS all the running lights. Is the euro switch plug and play? Just swap out the left top half? Swap out the top RIGHT half. It's plug and play if you just want to be able to shut off the headlamp. It has three positions: Switch to the far left: Headlamp and running lamps on. Switch to the middle: Headlamp off, running lamps on. Switch to the right: Headlamp off, running lamps on (if you just plug it in, plug and play.) I spliced into the wire coming off the fuse block, so that when I put the switch in the far right position it kills ALL the lights.... "evade" mode. It doesn't kill the brake light, but it DOES kill the gauges.... which is good, as it reminds me it's all the way off. Unfortunately there's nothing to tell me when I forget to turn the headlight on, so I often forget to flick it on after startup. I rarely use the "all off" position... usually just flick it to the "running lamp only" position, then flick the headlamp on after starting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beondwacko Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Something similar happened to me a few weeks ago at the track. I was waiting in line at the entrace for almost 25 min' , and I ended up killing the battery. This has never happened to me before. It was a hot day and there was a lot of extended idleing(sp?) time going on. The bike also ran it's hottest that day as well. When I had push started it and got back in line , I turned up the idle speed to about 2.5K for a better chance at recharging, and it didn't like that at all. I haven't changed the battery since I got the bike on Oct' 04. I was able to charge it there at the track and have not had an issue since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBBXX Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I guess I should have mentioned that the battery is less than a year old. I charged it up last night on the trickle charger and everything worked good. The thing that really scared me is that I do have a HID, and it started flickering, which will kill them in a heartbeat. I couldn't exactly get off, shut off the bike, and unplug it with everything already shutting down, so I flicked on the high beam to shut off the HID. Of course, all that did was kill the HID and the high beam in about 30 seconds, but it saved my HID. I'm seriously thinking about gutting my old jumppack and putting that gel cell battery in front of my ECM and using it for situations like this. When you don't have access to a jumppack, just permanently install the damn thing on the bike! HID would explain the flickering then. There just wasn't enough juice to fully charge the ballast. It would charge as much as it could, then discharge a voltage too low to fire the light, then repeat. I'm pretty sure both bulbs are lit on high beam, correct me if I'm wrong. You have me thinking about a switch now. On the other hand I would think it would be too simple to wire a LED to show when the system is in discharge. This would at least prompt you to raise the RPM if you're idling for a long time or disable the lights if you have the switch. marty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02BIRD Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 how about a simple volt meter wired up with a little led display that reads the charge voltage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warchild Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 how about a simple volt meter wired up with a little led display that reads the charge voltage? Kinda like a deadly accurate Datel voltmeter, here showing a healthy 14.4 volts even at a paltry 1500 RPM: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 how about a simple volt meter wired up with a little led display that reads the charge voltage? Kinda like a deadly accurate Datel voltmeter, here showing a healthy 14.4 volts even at a paltry 1500 RPM: Dale, Thanks to your original "CUNT" box, I'm also rolling with the Datel... LOVE IT! MIke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02BIRD Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 JUST WHAT I HAD IN MIND If you don't mind i am going to copy you (Warchild) what are the other gauges? looks cool what year bird do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBBXX Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 JUST WHAT I HAD IN MIND If you don't mind i am going to copy you (Warchild) what are the other gauges? perfect. looks cool what year bird do you have? hmmm, Analog Instrument panel and fuel injection. :icon_think: 99 or 00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furbird Posted May 19, 2006 Author Share Posted May 19, 2006 Been doing a little digging after the "yuasa rep" comment was made further up. Looks like there's a couple of batteries with more CCA's than the YTX12BS that will fit in virtually the same dimensions. I'm going to do some measuring this weekend (hopefully) and see what I can figure out. I'm really hoping the 230 CCA one I found will fit, only difference is heighth. Please, please, please..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharknes Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 I had mentioned in another thread that if the bird is below 2000 revs the battery will be discharging, there is nothing you can do to avoid this, you can prelong the discharge by shutting down lights etc, also try to maintain the engine speed above 2000 revs by using lower gears to keep revs up, I've noticed this because I often to alot of about town runs in traffic and tended to coast along in 2nd or 3rd at 1500 revs eventually after a few days the battery would give up because it never got a charge. look at the lights at night and rev from 1k to 2k you will notice the lights brighten up, this is the alternator getting into charging range of 13.5 volts, if your battery is 12.2v and alternator is 13.5v it will be charging at a rate of 1.3 volts, if your alternator is 12 at 1000 revs and your battery is 12.2v your battery will be discharging at 0.2, the rate of discharge depends on load, these are just examples to explain the principle i think the main reason for this weakness in motorbike charging systems is the fact that the alternator is driven direct from the crank, if it was gear driven to allow it to spin faster at idle speeds in theory the battery would never discharge under normal running, manufacturers assume you will unlikely be running below 2000 revs for long periods but sometimes that is not the case...............so always try and keep your revs above 2k and if sitting at idle for long periods turn of the main beam, fan and lights are a big drain on the battery at idle, also stopping and starting many times in a short period will discharge the battery too hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warchild Posted May 20, 2006 Share Posted May 20, 2006 JUST WHAT I HAD IN MIND If you don't mind i am going to copy you (Warchild) what are the other gauges? looks cool what year bird do you have? This photo is several years old..... above the speedometer is a Valentine One remote display. Above the tach is an ambient air digital thermometer. The bike is a 2000 model year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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