gharknes

I thought shinko tyres where made by one of the larger mainstream brands like bridgstone, same technology same material just branded under a different name, large companies often do this to get market share

Dont know if it was mentioned already, but your best bet would be to buy a used ECU from ebay.uk (since you are overseas) & swap them out. I seriously doubt the naked eye could detect any problem in the board, they are very high tech & everything is micro organized, even if you did find it, fixing it would be nearly impossible even if you had the tools/knowledge/equiptment, sounds like the ECU itself may have been a Manuf. defect if that is the real problem. I have worked in electronics all my working life, I do understand what you say but state of the art honda or most auto electric are not, it's really old hat for me and the new stuff - well you'd be amazed what I have repaired before, anyway thanks for the eplies guys and correct me if I'm wrong, you cannot just buy an ecu for the bird - you need the matching ingnition assemby also Dont know if it was mentioned already, but your best bet would be to buy a used ECU from ebay.uk (since you are overseas) & swap them out. I seriously doubt the naked eye could detect any problem in the board, they are very high tech & everything is micro organized, even if you did find it, fixing it would be nearly impossible even if you had the tools/knowledge/equiptment, sounds like the ECU itself may have been a Manuf. defect if that is the real problem. I have worked in electronics all my working life, I do understand what you say but state of the art honda or most auto electric are not, it's really old hat for me and the new stuff - well you'd be amazed what I have repaired before, anyway thanks for the eplies guys and correct me if I'm wrong, you cannot just buy an ecu for the bird - you need the matching ingnition assemby also thanks for keeping everything on topic guys, when a bird goes seriously wrong as long as.................................................

basically I believe I have a fault in the ecu, if what you say is true then I agree there would be no point in opening it, I know the ecu in a car is a bolt togeher metal box, i did some work on mine a few years back.........read my thread on the knock sensor

if so can you tell me what you found I am planning to open mine by cutting round the plastic at the end where the connectors are and hopefully slide the circuit board out. any help apprieciated

I have HID low and high and if I have my low beam on when pressing te starter nothing happens

Fixed so far so good and if it comes back at least I know the area of the problem - what did I do ? turned the ECU upside down, so wires and connections are laying a different way as I suspected this is not a knock sensor problem as I checked and double checked the wiring, it is another undetermined signal from another sensor that is required for the KS to operate correctly.

well something strange happened Went for a ride yesterday and instead of the usual FI light on after 3000 revs - it stayed off and it stayed off for 30 miles, I gave it loads and it still stayed off, thinking this can't be the bulb must be faulty I switched off and on and the light was working fine, stopped the bike at the hospital for about 4 hours came back out rode for 2 minutes and on it comes again and has been the same since anyone manage to get the info I requested about the KS test ?

Afaulty KS must put the engine in safe mode as it cannot function safely, the KS allows the ECU to maintain ignition advance right on the edge of performance at all rev levels and throttle positions, if the ECU is not getting a correct KS signal it has know way of knowing what the setting should be so it retards the ignition to a safe level, this results in poor performance, the KS is a fundamental component of all FI systems, the checks you mention I have already performed All I need to know is the test routine the ECU performs to determine if the KS is good or bad, I do know that the test occurs at 3000revs but that's it, TBH I suspect that my ECU is faulty.

i'm loosing water/coolant, can't see anything externally, are there some common leaks that develope on the bird also where is the point to apply pressure to check

Source (Good Read) it is my understanding there are 2 different types Od KS, the one on the Bird does not have a ballast resistor, it reads OC on a meter, could be wrong but I know mine reads OC also as I mentioned before a guy with the same problem as me replaced the KS and it didn't fix it

many many many thanks guys, you have know idea how much better I feel right now, maybe if I can get this intense headache to lift I might even go out today cheers and the best of luck with your inquiries

does anyone here own a honda ? does anyone here have any contact with a honda dealer does anyone here want to offer a little of their time to help another BB owner (oh and I'm not from the US but that shouldn't make a difference) does anyone here have the ability to go to a honda dealer and ask them to either supply a copy or request from honda the technical details of the knock sensor testing and error process does anyone here think this may be of value to everyone does anyone here think (like I do) that this is about to become a cronic problem with 99 Birds does anyone here think that helping someone that lives in Thailand is out of the question does anyone here think that this is the best BB community on the net does anybody care :-) I used to be a member of a car forum in te UK, we would often get people from around the world dropping in looking for help, I was actually the technical expert as I nationally raced the car, I did all the technical modification the the engine and running gear and many people followed my lead. I was always willing to go out of my way to help others no matter where they resided 99.9% of the time people praised the level of help and support they recieved, I even had the main dealers in my local area contact me several times for help with problems. If I was living at home I would not be requesting anything from anyone here, in fact I would most likely become a technical expert on the FI Bird to everyones benefit Now I know some people may read this thread and say FU (feel free to do so), others may actually find it within themselves to offer assistance Now off the the hospital on my sick bird for an MRI scan and some other tests. cheers

I have posted on the other thread.

Stan, unless I've been living in a dreamland, you are out to lunch. A piezo sensor is a voltage generator, not a moving contact. It generates voltage by mechanical stress on the quartz crystal, really it is just a microphone set to emphasize mechanical response. Its conductance will be zero. And it is also resonant, so it is very frequency selective. There is another style sensor used on some cars which is not resonant, but I digress. yep, one wire generates voltage, retards timing. Reading skills still growing. Looks like if disconected should not fault or retard,,,,I wonder, garkness??? It is my understanding On a stock Bird fault 25 will flag at 3000revs if you disconnect the KS, I wish I could get my hands on one to try, the reason I won't just buy one is because someone else with same problem as me replaced the KS and it made no difference to the fault condition, this means it is either the (1) ECU or (2) some other fault that makes the expected normal KS readings appear wrong and the ECU flags a fault condition, my choice is number 2, in order to progress this further I need the precise test parameters so that I can test every on of them, as the ECU relys on Throttle position - revs - timing - mixture etc etc, I suspect a fault with any of these other things could be interpreted by the ECU as KS Thoughts 1. Throttle position - this has its own diagnostic so is unlickly to be at fault, not ruled out 100% 2. Revs - can't see how this could be at fault, the engine revs up and the rev counter shows it. 3. Timing - ECU controls the ignition timing based on almost every variable on the engine, retards when it gets Knock signal from Knock sensor, I can't see what could mechanically move or slip that would cause the timing to slip out of tolerence although I'm not ruling out the possibility, if the ECU is testing the Knock sensor and it thinks the timing is in a certain condition (retarded or advanced) when it isn't, it could easily interpret this as a KS fault, can't see how this timing error could occur though but I'm open to suggestions. 4. Mixture - again controled via the ECU dependent on revs - throttle - temp - ecu map, ECU controls the injectors directly, can't see how there could be a failure here, only thing maybe would be fuel pressure which could cause the mixture to be wrong, this again could cause the KS to produce invalid readings when being tested, running rich will surpress knock - lean will encourage it. when the ECU shows a fault condition it is indicating that the indicated component is not working correctly There is an awfull lot of testing required here if my overview is correct, what would be extremely helpful is some technical data from honda that explains the actual KS test in detail, on the other hand I could be way off base ................................ http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=46100 I also think that this is going to be a common problem amongst early FI birds, I now know of 3, perhaps over the next 12 months that figure could increase. you guys have no idea how frustrating this whole thing is for me, every time I get on my bike (every day) after about 2 mins the FI light comes on my power drops 30% and my fuel consumption drops, I have a workshop I use but it is a general none specialist place, they can strip an engine and build blindfolded but when it comes to stuff like this they are relying on me to tell them what to do, there is also a language barrier, thailand doesn have honda dealers but only for small 100cc bikes. I have no doubt if I was in the states or UK I could have this sorted in days. I am also going through an illness right now which doesn't help either, my one great release and pleasure -my bird is sick too what I am going to do is take the sensor to a workshop where they have a scope and see at least if it is outputting a signal when tapped, difficult here in Thailand trying to explain though..

Anyone have any idea how I could get the full technical specs for the Knock Sensor - specifically how the fault detection system works, what the ecu expects to see and what type of failures it will detect with a full technical description, pretty sure it will be part of the technical description for the ECU any help apprieciated access to a honda dealer (which I dont have) might be a solution, I'm pretty sure they can get info like that if they needed it.

OK I have the same manual, the point here is that the ecu detects a fault in the sensor, so everything will be down because the ecu decides to switch the engine into a safe mode, so the symtoms of having a fault are, low fuel consumtion - low power etc etc....try and understand that the primary problem I have is.....the ecu detects an error in one of the sensors it relies on for normal operation, so the effect of that is ......I get an error flag and the engine performes like a 250cc only using twice as much fuel, this is no good BTW, i run the risk of piston wash..........an over rich mixture for a long period of time will damage my bike........................I blame Honda for all this shiiit, they need to let out a little more info about their diagnostics, especially something so critical maybe in a few weeks I will post here that I replaced the KS and it fixed the problem....but I reallly would not bet on it.................I worked for years in motor sport (cars) tuning engines etc etc, I am very familiar with ecu's and FI, and even turbo's, did my own setup on my own race car, but it is impossible to fault trace without some information as to what the fault actually is ..apart from a flashing light there is no real info on what has actually failed or what the test is doing and what it expects to see based on certain conditions

lookie lookie lookie clickie clikie read read right click and save as ok???? I have the full manual but I never saw the quote you typed, I will download the other one, they are the same size and look identicle, will let u know

That looks like a different manual than I have, mine doesn't mention anything like that, the signal the ks generates cannot be read on a meter, you need a scope, btw, I have worked in electronics for years, i do know my stuff, the wire from the ks to ecu is fine thanks for taking the time to help, what i really need is another bird to do some compares and swapping

yup have it, doesn't say much, check continuity, change ks, if still have problem change ecu you have no idea how depressing this whole thing is

all the cables etc are fine, if I had some idea of what the ecu is looking for at 3000revs I might have a chance of a diagnosis, it could be many things but in order to fault find you need to know what is missing or present when it shouldn't be, my guess is that the ecu is looking for knock signal from the sensor at 3000revs with a certain throttle position etc etc and isn't getting it, this could be the timing is perminantly retarded, not sure how this could happen as the ignition timing is run directly from the ecu to the coils/plugs, also the throttle pos sensor may not be giving the correct information so the ecu thinks conditions are different to what they really are, there just isn't enough information about this to do any meaningful diag, there are no honda dealers out there so you understand my options are limited. It could simply be a faulty KS but I know someone has the same problem as me and has already replaced it and it was still showing fault 25, and yes I have reset the ecu memory several times, the fault is cleared then shows up again at 3000 revs, FI light come on permanently and kick stand shows fault 25, the KS is a generating device it has no power supply, it gives out a signal when knock occurs in the engine, when I read across the signal pin to the body it has no reading I.E. open circuit, not sure if this is correct or not, it would be handy if someone could take the trouble to put a meter across the signal pin and earth to see if same as me. How many other honda's have a knock sensor ?

I have done the wiring loom fix a year ago and have recently checked it, my fault is very specific, it is not random like the loom problem, it is a steady 25 blink error that is triggered at 3000revs, although the fault didn't begin that way, at the start it may have been OK for hours then appeared - very much intermittant, now it is not intermittant, I am reluctant to spend money on a knock sensor right now as I'm only 50% convinced that it is faulty, an offer was made to post me one from a member here but the postage was $80, postage from the UK about $20 recorded, I'm pretty sure there are cheaper reliable ways to post a small item like this, I have posted from the US using airmail who will send small package very cheap - about $17, I think I will wait and see if I can convince someone here (Thailand) to let me try one from their bike, will keep looking.

will a PCII or III negate the need for a KS ?

replaced knock sensor and didn't fix it does anyone know what the ecu actually looks for at 3000revs and what else could be at fault also can someone tell me what happens if you remove the plug from the knock sensor on a good one, how does the fault show up I am honestly now at a complete loss with this as to what it could be, the only clue I have is that once when I had a passenger the light stayed out !!!!!!!!!!! for about 15 miles, this fault used to be intermittant and gradually got worse Has anyone ever open up an ECU, it looks sealed to me but I'm sure there must be a way inside, I want to check all the pins that they have no bad solder joints etc.

My guess here is a valve stuck open allowing pressure into the sump which blew out the oil seal, you now have a sick engine, strip and rebuild either way.

I tried this on mine and quite frankly was appauled at the result, it just sounds like an exhaust with a blowout. I then spent two hours with chemical metal trying to plug them again, not easy because of location, sorry but for me this was a big mistake, honda did a very good job of making a Bird sound quiet but deep and menacing - only appriciable when heard passing, you know it's big and powerful and quiet.