Newt Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Ok - I'm convinced that I need to put pure synthetic into my '03 - and I'm not even going to mention what brand in order to avoid another of a long list of 'which oil is best' threads. I've searched the site looking but can't see to find any information on how many miles should be on the bike before switching from dino oil to synthetic. I've got about 2500, and am ready for the improved shifting that synthetic is supposed to bring. Thanks - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 Ok - I'm convinced that I need to put pure synthetic into my '03 - and I'm not even going to mention what brand in order to avoid another of a long list of 'which oil is best' threads. I've searched the site looking but can't see to find any information on how many miles should be on the bike before switching from dino oil to synthetic. I've got about 2500, and am ready for the improved shifting that synthetic is supposed to bring. Thanks - from what I gather, you can put synthetic in at any time, but you do NOT want to do extended drain intervals until the engine is broken in... I just started to see the reduction in "break-in" metals in my oil at ~20k miles, so I wouldn't start running extended drain intervals until about then (on this bike anyway)... Basically, get your oil analysis done at every other oil change (the standard length changes) and when your metals start to balance out (go away), then you can start running extended drain... Just my $.04 Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaygermeister Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 The problem isn’t breaking down the viscosity of the oil it’s keeping the oil clean and the filter form fouling. You could have a oil that would last 100k miles but you would still have to keep it clean and the filter clear. As for synthetics........... here we go..........My jetski bud works for Lubersol and all they do is blend oil, according to him, he says the way dyno oil is processed now and the additives in them it would be very hard to break them down, unless you over heat or the bike spends most of it’s time in a race condition....... he says synthetics are a waste of money......................... of course I use synthetics and he gives me shit for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matey_peeps Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 The problem isn’t breaking down the viscosity of the oil it’s keeping the oil clean and the filter form fouling. You could have a oil that would last 100k miles but you would still have to keep it clean and the filter clear. As for synthetics........... here we go..........My jetski bud works for Lubersol and all they do is blend oil, according to him, he says the way dyno oil is processed now and the additives in them it would be very hard to break them down, unless you over heat or the bike spends most of it’s time in a race condition....... he says synthetics are a waste of money......................... of course I use synthetics and he gives me shit for it. If you don't use Amsoil your bike will blow up and all the puppies in the world will die. Think of the puppies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newt Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 Yeah, think of the puppies ! I definitely would have missed that - no wonder I come to the board for advice ! Seriously, I'm either going with Mobil 1 motorcycle oil or Amsoil - and if it comes down to saving the puppies, I'll use the Amsoil. But I've heard that if you switch too soon, the motor never gets fully broken in, along the lines that bartonmd suggests. But from a shifting standpoint, it sounds like the synthetics are superior to the dino's. What brought this all up was that yesterday, I put about 200 miles on the bird. First longish ride of the year. One time when shifting from 5th to 6th, I had it not fully engage the gear and pop out. Not sure if they synthetic would have made any difference, but it got me thinking about the comments on how much improved the box is with they non-dino oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rixxx Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 I'm sure you have heard it all before....but. 2 points 1. The last two Corvettes I have owned a 92 and now an 02 both came frome the factory with Mobil 1 in em. I sold the 92 2 months ago with 68k miles on it never burned oil between changes. The only problem was an oil leak behind the intake manifold. I have heard that synthetic might leak a little more. The 02 has a supercharger putting out 473 rwhp with 12k miles on it and I have never added oil between changes. 2. I have an 02 Blackbird that I just switched to synthetic and noticed the shifting seems to be quite a bit easier. I would not go back. The Bird is faster than the Vette, but there is something about being able to light em up at freeway speeds in the Vette! Love both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retreaded Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 As engines break in they will get slightly better gas milage regardless of the oil. After 3000 mi I switched to mobil 1 20-50 for the oilhead and the engine was way smoother and looks like I got about 0.2 mpg better milage. The range wasn't as good as a gain as the engine reduction in vibration and harshness. Also you can practically double the milage before you need to change the oil and that makes up the difference in price. I only run full synthentic now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXX Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 Mini's & BMW's come from the factory now with synthetic. Mini won't even change my oil before 12,000 miles on the last one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beondwacko Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I have been using Repsol 5W-40 full synthetic since I have had my bike. 10K mikes later, no leaks, or any other oil related problems. I change the oil every 3K-3500 miles. From what I have read, in motorcycles, it's the "shearing" that occurs in the transmission that's most destructive to oils and synthetic oils are supposed to be more resistant to breakdown under such conditions. As long as the bike doesn't blow up, I'm happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogoMan Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I use the Golden Spectro blend. I got some on my hands once and it felt slippery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bird Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I use the Golden Spectro blend. I got some on my hands once and it felt slippery. For what it's worth, Jaws, on the Brit BB site, states not to use Synthetic at all. I us Amsoil. 2500kms on Dyno oil, 5000kms on Castro Semi-synthetic, now Amsoil, which I like, in spite of the high cost. I buy it by the case, $10 per quart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrriderxx Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I just switched to Pure Canola Oil....Wesson seems to be the favorite?! :icon_nana: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newt Posted May 7, 2006 Author Share Posted May 7, 2006 I was in the stealership yesterday - and they had Mobil 1 motorcycle oil for - gasp - $12.95/quart ! Yikes ! Is it that expensive everywhere ? I thought it retailed for about $6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dano Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 I was told once to switch to synthetic after the first two dyno oil changes on a New bike. I did at 6k miles. I was running Mobil red cap 15-50. Mobil remarketed the Red to Gold cap, extended life and now charges twice as much for it. I have now run out of the red cap and drove to four different stores trying to get Shell Rotella synthetic. I gave up and put $8 qt Amsoil in it. Bottom line if you change it every 3K miles any dyno or syn will work fine. Some say shifting is better with a synthetic weighted at the heavy end,, 15-50 etc.. The 10-40 Amsoil I put in Friday, ran 425 miles Saturday, didn't seem noticeably different then the Mobil 15-50 I was running. It was only 55 degrees Saturday, so I'll could tell ya more when it warms up some around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 I was in the stealership yesterday - and they had Mobil 1 motorcycle oil for - gasp - $12.95/quart ! Yikes ! Is it that expensive everywhere ? I thought it retailed for about $6. M1 MX4T full synthetic motorcycle 10W40 is $8.00 at AutoZone... AT least the ones around me still carry it... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaygermeister Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I'm sure you have heard it all before....but. 2 points 1. The last two Corvettes I have owned a 92 and now an 02 both came frome the factory with Mobil 1 in em. I sold the 92 2 months ago with 68k miles on it never burned oil between changes. The only problem was an oil leak behind the intake manifold. I have heard that synthetic might leak a little more. The 02 has a supercharger putting out 473 rwhp with 12k miles on it and I have never added oil between changes. 2. I have an 02 Blackbird that I just switched to synthetic and noticed the shifting seems to be quite a bit easier. I would not go back. The Bird is faster than the Vette, but there is something about being able to light em up at freeway speeds in the Vette! Love both of them. I’ve been running synthetics in my SS since 32k miles and once I hit 68k miles my main seals started weeping, not really a leak but a slow drip once the motor got up to operating temperature. I had read once that on older motors when the seals start getting worn the smaller molecule synthetics will start to bleed through once they get hot. So I switched back to dyno and the dripping stopped............... but I’ve never heard of a motorcycle having this experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I'm sure you have heard it all before....but. 2 points 1. The last two Corvettes I have owned a 92 and now an 02 both came frome the factory with Mobil 1 in em. I sold the 92 2 months ago with 68k miles on it never burned oil between changes. The only problem was an oil leak behind the intake manifold. I have heard that synthetic might leak a little more. The 02 has a supercharger putting out 473 rwhp with 12k miles on it and I have never added oil between changes. 2. I have an 02 Blackbird that I just switched to synthetic and noticed the shifting seems to be quite a bit easier. I would not go back. The Bird is faster than the Vette, but there is something about being able to light em up at freeway speeds in the Vette! Love both of them. I’ve been running synthetics in my SS since 32k miles and once I hit 68k miles my main seals started weeping, not really a leak but a slow drip once the motor got up to operating temperature. I had read once that on older motors when the seals start getting worn the smaller molecule synthetics will start to bleed through once they get hot. So I switched back to dyno and the dripping stopped............... but I’ve never heard of a motorcycle having this experience. Actually, synthetics keep their viscosity better than conventional oils, so they should leak out less at high temperatures, BUT they do have more active "shit fighters" in them that clean the varnish and shit away from the seals that has been sealing them, or would be sealing them if you were using dino oil (that leaves those deposits). FWIW, A chevy small block (TBI, or LT1, which I believe both have 2-piece main seals, which are prone to leaking) will start weeping at the mains (at least the rear) at about that mileage anyway... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaygermeister Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I'm sure you have heard it all before....but. 2 points 1. The last two Corvettes I have owned a 92 and now an 02 both came frome the factory with Mobil 1 in em. I sold the 92 2 months ago with 68k miles on it never burned oil between changes. The only problem was an oil leak behind the intake manifold. I have heard that synthetic might leak a little more. The 02 has a supercharger putting out 473 rwhp with 12k miles on it and I have never added oil between changes. 2. I have an 02 Blackbird that I just switched to synthetic and noticed the shifting seems to be quite a bit easier. I would not go back. The Bird is faster than the Vette, but there is something about being able to light em up at freeway speeds in the Vette! Love both of them. I’ve been running synthetics in my SS since 32k miles and once I hit 68k miles my main seals started weeping, not really a leak but a slow drip once the motor got up to operating temperature. I had read once that on older motors when the seals start getting worn the smaller molecule synthetics will start to bleed through once they get hot. So I switched back to dyno and the dripping stopped............... but I’ve never heard of a motorcycle having this experience. Actually, synthetics keep their viscosity better than conventional oils, so they should leak out less at high temperatures, BUT they do have more active "shit fighters" in them that clean the varnish and shit away from the seals that has been sealing them, or would be sealing them if you were using dino oil (that leaves those deposits). FWIW, A chevy small block (TBI, or LT1, which I believe both have 2-piece main seals, which are prone to leaking) will start weeping at the mains (at least the rear) at about that mileage anyway... Mike ............ but it ain't leak'n now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I just love a good oil thread! :icon_wall: Two things to watch out for: 1. Many oils, both synthetic and dino, have friction modifiers added to boost lubricity. These are tpically made of molybdenum. Well, moly tends to find it's waqy into the clutch packand can lead to early clutch slippage. In my ST1100, the first time I used Mobil MX4T, my clutch slipped like mad. The real concern is that ocnce the moly particles are ground into your clutch, there's no way to get them out. The clutch is cabbage! 2. As mentioned earlier, synthetic oils do very good job of washing down the inside of an engine. If you start to run synthetic oil for the first time in an older engine, make sure you change the filter very often. The natural engine cleaning can clog filters very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I'm sure you have heard it all before....but. 2 points 1. The last two Corvettes I have owned a 92 and now an 02 both came frome the factory with Mobil 1 in em. I sold the 92 2 months ago with 68k miles on it never burned oil between changes. The only problem was an oil leak behind the intake manifold. I have heard that synthetic might leak a little more. The 02 has a supercharger putting out 473 rwhp with 12k miles on it and I have never added oil between changes. 2. I have an 02 Blackbird that I just switched to synthetic and noticed the shifting seems to be quite a bit easier. I would not go back. The Bird is faster than the Vette, but there is something about being able to light em up at freeway speeds in the Vette! Love both of them. I’ve been running synthetics in my SS since 32k miles and once I hit 68k miles my main seals started weeping, not really a leak but a slow drip once the motor got up to operating temperature. I had read once that on older motors when the seals start getting worn the smaller molecule synthetics will start to bleed through once they get hot. So I switched back to dyno and the dripping stopped............... but I’ve never heard of a motorcycle having this experience. Actually, synthetics keep their viscosity better than conventional oils, so they should leak out less at high temperatures, BUT they do have more active "shit fighters" in them that clean the varnish and shit away from the seals that has been sealing them, or would be sealing them if you were using dino oil (that leaves those deposits). FWIW, A chevy small block (TBI, or LT1, which I believe both have 2-piece main seals, which are prone to leaking) will start weeping at the mains (at least the rear) at about that mileage anyway... Mike ............ but it ain't leak'n now. As expected, because dino oil (in general) doesn't have as much "shit fighters" (a lower TBN) as synthetic, so the carbon and shit that gets into your oil will start to stop small leaks again... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaygermeister Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 By “shit fighters” do you mean additives and detergents? So it would depend and the oil brand, not the type. :icon_think: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 By “shit fighters” do you mean additives and detergents? So it would depend and the oil brand, not the type. :icon_think: Yeah, but "shit fighters" sounds better... It's basically the additives and such that counteract the acidic combustion byprocucts that make their way into your oil and keep the acidity of your oil down to an acceptable level... The higher the TBN, the more acidic "stuff" your oil can take without becoming acidic itself... Mostly, no... Dino oils that are only meant to be driven for 3k-7500 miles have a lower TBN of "shit fighters" than synthetics that are meant to be driven on for 20k miles... Dino oils typically have a TBN of around 7, while synthetics have a TBN of 12-14... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwflorence Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I have a foot in both camps...I run Motul Semi-Synthetic Gear shifting is easier and I think the engine runs quieter. I wont go back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shovelstrokeed Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 I have a foot in both camps...I run Motul Semi-Synthetic Gear shifting is easier and I think the engine runs quieter. I wont go back. The Motul 20w50 semi synthetic is what is in my bike now. I'm actually going to the Shell Rotella stuff next weekend as the bike is due for another oil change. As to the leaking seal thing, most synthetics have an additive package that includes some stuff that improves 'wicking' of the oil. In the bad old days of synthetics, they were very agressive about this and did cause some seal problems. Mfg's have since cut way back on that particular property and it shouldn't be a problem so long as the seals are not marginal to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TURK Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 honda recomends you wait until 10k before going to syn oil so that the rings can seat properly to prevent high milage oil usage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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