OZDave Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 [attachmentid=775] Hi Guys, I’ve bought a GPS and I need to start adding points to plug in accessories. I couldn’t find a power board similar to what was shown in here recently so I bought a fuse block instead. I am not too switched on with the electrical side of things. Could some of the electrical guys answer some questions for me? 1. Should I fuse the power going to the relay? 2. If the answer is yes, it’s a 40 amp relay, Do I use a 40 amp fuse or will a 30 be safer. (assuming total output is under 30 amps) 3. What rating fuse do you recommend for a GPS? 4. Where is a good point to patch into a switched circuit? From under the fuse block e.g. Headlight ? How much does a signal draw anyway? 5. If the attachment works, is the diagram correct? Any help greatly appreciated. :icon_pray: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockmeupto125 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 [attachmentid=775] Hi Guys, I’ve bought a GPS and I need to start adding points to plug in accessories. I couldn’t find a power board similar to what was shown in here recently so I bought a fuse block instead. I am not too switched on with the electrical side of things. Could some of the electrical guys answer some questions for me? 1. Should I fuse the power going to the relay? 2. If the answer is yes, it’s a 40 amp relay, Do I use a 40 amp fuse or will a 30 be safer. (assuming total output is under 30 amps) 3. What rating fuse do you recommend for a GPS? 4. Where is a good point to patch into a switched circuit? From under the fuse block e.g. Headlight ? How much does a signal draw anyway? 5. If the attachment works, is the diagram correct? Any help greatly appreciated. :icon_pray: 1. If you are going to power the fuseblock from the relay, its not really necessary unless you add enough devices that you may overdraw the 40 amp rating of the relay. And if you are powering the relay off the fuseblock, its already fused by circuit its attached to. 2. A smaller fuse is always safer. But for a 40 amp relay, I'd use a 40 amp fuse, if I felt that I needed to fuse the circuit. 3. A GPS pulls minimal current. A 1 amp fuse should handle it. I'd probably put a 5 amp fuse in that circuit in case I ran other electronic devices off it. 4. Here in the states, the lights come on with the key switch. A popular and easy point to trigger the relay from is to simply patch into the taillight positive lead. To actuate the relay is minimal current. 5. There's no need to fuse the relay on both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZDave Posted April 30, 2006 Author Share Posted April 30, 2006 Thanks for the quick response. I was out of my depth there. I really appreciate the help. One more question though. What is the recommended method of patching into the tail light positive. A patch clip seems to be a rough way of doing it. Should I strip the wire near the tail light plug and solder a patch or...any other hints? At the tail light, or in the loom somewhere? BTW Ours are lights on all the time too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockmeupto125 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 In a perfect world, strip, wrap the subfeed wire around the main, solder, and heatshrink tubing. Its not a perfect world. Blue Scotchlock taps work well. There are many other solutions, including fuse block taps...but one could go nuts finding the perfect solution for each situation. In fact, I think that has happened to many of our members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZDave Posted May 1, 2006 Author Share Posted May 1, 2006 OK, I bought the TomTom Rider GPS and now I have installed it. The technical details are available on the Tomtom site so I won’t go into it here. The first problem was that a mounting part was left out of the kit. A quick trip back to the store and the problem was rectified. They were very good about it. Next problem: The kit has about 5 ways to mount the system, none of which work for the Bird. After much wailing and gnashing of teeth, and thinking, I had to make a custom mount. The mount is 25mm OD pipe with the end capped to weather proof it, and for looks. It is painted by dipping it in etch matt black. It is a little rough as it is only a proof of concept thing at this stage. I’ll make a better looking one later. It is bolted to the bar clamp using the standard bolt and is quiet rigid. It gives a good range of movement for visibility, clears all instruments and does not foul the tank in any direction. I think I’ll patent it. This is the bracket I had to make. It's a little rough because I didn't want to spend too much time on something I didn't know would work. Installed on bar clamp The pinch bracket needs has a ball on the GPS end so it can swivel. A rubber strip (too thick, I'll fix it) is used to stop movement between the bracket and mount. Finished view from rider point of view. Side view The power cable is routed from the GPS mount with the main loom down the left side of the bike (Some fairing removal needed) and held with cable ties. Next problem: I know very little about auto electrical work, so a quick call to this site yielded some very useful comments and suggestions. Getting power to the GPS seemed like a good time to add some upgrade capability to the system incase I add some more things later. So, a fuse box, a relay and a lot of fiddling around resulted in the system shown. Circuit diagram My real world interpretation of my diagram. The power is taken directly from the battery. The earth used is the one under the tank beside the rear tank mount. The relay signal is taken from white plug in the middle of the bank of relays. I unplugged it and removed the power side clip from the back of the plug and soldered the signal wire to the clip. The clip was then reinserted into the back of the plug. The plug fitted together as before. (I have no idea what the plug was for. I assumed the current draw would be small enough not to affect anything.) :icon_pray: Comment/Problems: *The wiring is not very neat and is only temporary. I’ll need to color strip the ends as the only heavy wire I had was black. I soldered, crimped and shrink wrapped everything mainly for practice for redoing it properly later. *The Relay is 40 amps but the main power wire is only rated at 20 amps, so the relay fuse is 20 amps. Upgrade later? Nah…I’ll wait until it starts blowing fuses. *The fuse box is a little tall and fits well….until I tried to put the seat on. :icon_doh: It had to be moved back a little. *Fuse box and relay is held in with double sided tape. When you stop looking at it, it lets go. Maybe hot melt glue? I don't like drilling holes in pristine plastics. *I need a better main power pick up. With my clip in place, the red silicone boot on the positive battery terminal won’t fit properly. *It worked first time. Relay, GPS everything, until I tried to put the seat on. (fixed) I hope this is of use to someone. Anything I have done wrong, let me know please. As I said, I know very little about auto electrics. Special thanks to Rockmeupto125. :icon_clap: Help was appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbracerx Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Looks great! I'll look forward to the next installment with the CNC'd and anodized custom mount I assume the Tom-Tom comes off quickly for theft prevention. Curious where you put the antenna, is that integrated into the display unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZDave Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 The antenna is integrated, and the unit unclips for removal. They provide a padded pouch to put it in. Actually they include everything. I can be used in the car also, with an exta mounting kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew69442 Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 [attachmentid=775] Hi Guys, I’ve bought a GPS and I need to start adding points to plug in accessories. I couldn’t find a power board similar to what was shown in here recently so I bought a fuse block instead. I am not too switched on with the electrical side of things. Could some of the electrical guys answer some questions for me? 1. Should I fuse the power going to the relay? 2. If the answer is yes, it’s a 40 amp relay, Do I use a 40 amp fuse or will a 30 be safer. (assuming total output is under 30 amps) 3. What rating fuse do you recommend for a GPS? 4. Where is a good point to patch into a switched circuit? From under the fuse block e.g. Headlight ? How much does a signal draw anyway? 5. If the attachment works, is the diagram correct? Any help greatly appreciated. :icon_pray: You certainly want to fuse the line side of your aux run relay as close as possible to the battery as the fuse is there to protect the wire (not a device) in the event of a short or over current. You will rate your fuse in relationship to the size and length (round trip) of the wire. Same thing for fusing your consumables (GPS, etc) the fuse is protecting the wire feeding the device. If you intend to switch the aux run relay via the running lights no problem with using any off the shelf relay. If you decide to switch the coil side of the relay via a remote switch (toggle) be sure to look for a relay with a suppression diode across the coil on the relay this diode will suppress the collapsing field when you turn the relay “OFF” and help eliminate voltage spikes thru your electrical system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZDave Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 You certainly want to fuse the line side of your aux run relay as close as possible to the battery as the fuse is there to protect the wire (not a device) in the event of a short or over current. You will rate your fuse in relationship to the size and length (round trip) of the wire. Same thing for fusing your consumables (GPS, etc) the fuse is protecting the wire feeding the device. I didn't know that, I thought the fuse was to protect the device. If you intend to switch the aux run relay via the running lights no problem with using any off the shelf relay. If you decide to switch the coil side of the relay via a remote switch (toggle) be sure to look for a relay with a suppression diode across the coil on the relay this diode will suppress the collapsing field when you turn the relay “OFF” and help eliminate voltage spikes thru your electrical system. ....and I didn't know that either. What does a relay with a suppression diode across the coil look like? Does what I did look OK? I know the Power from the battery to the relay is a little light but I will remedy that when I get some 40 amp wire. It is only running the GPS at the moment so it is not a problem yet. The signal is running of a 'key on' circuit so I shouldn't need a suppression diode relay should I? Thanks for the tips. It is really appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beondwacko Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 :icon_thumbsup: You certainly want to fuse the line side of your aux run relay as close as possible to the battery as the fuse is there to protect the wire (not a device) in the event of a short or over current. You will rate your fuse in relationship to the size and length (round trip) of the wire. Same thing for fusing your consumables (GPS, etc) the fuse is protecting the wire feeding the device. I didn't know that, I thought the fuse was to protect the device. If you intend to switch the aux run relay via the running lights no problem with using any off the shelf relay. If you decide to switch the coil side of the relay via a remote switch (toggle) be sure to look for a relay with a suppression diode across the coil on the relay this diode will suppress the collapsing field when you turn the relay “OFF” and help eliminate voltage spikes thru your electrical system. ....and I didn't know that either. What does a relay with a suppression diode across the coil look like? Does what I did look OK? I know the Power from the battery to the relay is a little light but I will remedy that when I get some 40 amp wire. It is only running the GPS at the moment so it is not a problem yet. The signal is running of a 'key on' circuit so I shouldn't need a suppression diode relay should I? Thanks for the tips. It is really appreciated. LEW is correct about the fusing. IT's to protect the wiring more than the device. As for the diode style relay, it's designed with the diode to keep the coil in the relay from bouncing the the contacts during deactivation. If you were running a heavy load through the relay, it would be more apt to wanting to bounce durring switching because of the current draw affecting the coil voltage. Heavy duty relays use oversized coils to really snap the contacts with force(along with larger contacts). Any strong current draw device should be powered through a relay along with the relay you have that powers the entire fuse block. For instance, if you were going to run a set of AUX lights(55w x 2 = 110W =9.16amps) you would want to minimize the current flow through a swtich. Overall, I'd say you did a fine job on the work you have already done. :icon_thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZDave Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 Thanks a lot! I was getting worried that I had screwed things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew69442 Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 You certainly want to fuse the line side of your aux run relay as close as possible to the battery as the fuse is there to protect the wire (not a device) in the event of a short or over current. You will rate your fuse in relationship to the size and length (round trip) of the wire. Same thing for fusing your consumables (GPS, etc) the fuse is protecting the wire feeding the device. I didn't know that, I thought the fuse was to protect the device. If you intend to switch the aux run relay via the running lights no problem with using any off the shelf relay. If you decide to switch the coil side of the relay via a remote switch (toggle) be sure to look for a relay with a suppression diode across the coil on the relay this diode will suppress the collapsing field when you turn the relay “OFF” and help eliminate voltage spikes thru your electrical system. ....and I didn't know that either. What does a relay with a suppression diode across the coil look like? Does what I did look OK? I know the Power from the battery to the relay is a little light but I will remedy that when I get some 40 amp wire. It is only running the GPS at the moment so it is not a problem yet. The signal is running of a 'key on' circuit so I shouldn't need a suppression diode relay should I? Thanks for the tips. It is really appreciated. Don't get all caught up in the relays capabilities so much as you will never draw close to it's rating (30a continues duty & 40 mom for a typical off the shelf Bosch). First try to determine (if possible) what you anticipate on installing and add all the amperage draw, add 10% or so for a buffer and then rate your wire, fuse holder etc. If your still up in the air about what is to be installed then just simply make the circuit capable of carrying the 30a max rating on the relay which roughly depending on the length of the runs should equate to a #12 awq wire (bigger is always better). As far as the suppression diode across the coil again it is in place for when the coil field collapses (turning the relay OFF) the current needs to go somewhere the diode will let it bleed to ground. With your current install (relay ON with ign) this is not and issue. For identification purposes the diagram put on the side of most relays will show it\or not between the coil terminals #85 and #86. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZDave Posted May 7, 2006 Author Share Posted May 7, 2006 [attachmentid=835] Like this? :icon_think: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lew69442 Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 [attachmentid=835] Like this? :icon_think: That's it You'll find it a bit more electronic friendly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OZDave Posted May 9, 2006 Author Share Posted May 9, 2006 Just a thank you to all the guys that helped out and offered opinions, it really gave me some peace of mind. I tried the thing out on the weekend on about a 400km ride. It worked flawlessly. I'm very happy with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaminWarrior Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 good to hear m8!! blu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.