Redbird Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Rodantking- I'm currently running Racetech 1.0kg/mm springs up front with ~20mm of preload, for 35mm of rider sag. Oil is 7.5w with stock air gap (142mm) I'm 220-230lbs all geared up. In retrospect I think I may have been better off with 1.05kg/mm springs and less preload at my weight, and I'll also be switching to 5w this winter when I service my forks. That said, there's no black art to replacing springs and setting sag, it's all pretty well established parameters you want to stay within. The previously linked site is a better writeup than I'd likely come up with. I make no claims to being any kind of expert with this stuff, springs/sag are just the first step and easy to do. From there it you're still looking for improvement or to correct for changes in geometry from the springs you can move on to chassis ajustment and damping (as shovelstrokeed has already said), which is where it does get a little hazy, most especially damping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I have to hand it to Helvet, if I had to write in Dutch, forget it, it's not happening. I will do a detailed write up on the install and subsuquent ride/setup of the front and rear suspension with Hyperpro. I currently have the stock suspension with the front shimmed for 1 and 1/2" inches sag and the rear spring tightened up for the same sag. (rider on bike sag) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcticflipper Posted December 23, 2005 Author Share Posted December 23, 2005 Update: Managed to get hold of K-tech springs, Wilburs and a good----ish machanic. We've now changed the fork oil and still used the OEM Springs, and handeling was much better. Followed the manual, and did as was told in there. Also set the sag etc according to the document from an earlier post by Redbird. This did help a lot. It was not that far out, but out is out. Rode the bike for 1 week to get a feel and a decent comparison to the next upgrades. Must say this, the bike does dive under hard braking, and is a bit slow in handeling on twisties. I will now move over to the Wilburs setup, 150mm Air Gap with linear 0.90 Nmm springs - no valving is to be done yet. Recommended weigth on oil is 2.5 as per the factory in Germany. Oh I did pickup these when I was over there, only 99 Euros, not too bad.... I think. The K-teck springs is also Linear, with the same 150mm Air gap and 0.90 Nmm. I need to do the valves with them though, as per the factory advice. This is the reason why I'm doing them last. Now is there any quicker or easier way to change the springs etc, without having to drop the forks out completely? Well i suppose after this I'll know how to do this quickly... lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Update: Managed to get hold of K-tech springs, Wilburs and a good----ish machanic. We've now changed the fork oil  ..... I will now move over to the Wilburs setup, 150mm Air Gap with linear 0.90 Nmm springs - no valving is to be done yet. Recommended weigth on oil is 2.5 as per the factory in Germany. ...... The K-teck springs is also Linear, with the same 150mm Air gap and 0.90 Nmm.  Now is there any quicker or easier way to change the springs etc, without having to drop the forks out completely? As I was going to advise you to start by replacing oil, I've seen you did it. Personally I change fork oil twice per year (with an average mileage of 12000 kms). Regarding your last question, this link might be usefull, just not forget to re-check oil height (you are going to lose a bit when removing the old springs) http://bb.superblackbird.info/viewtopic.php?t=297 Now, is it hard to ask you to measure free lenght of your new springs (if you have not installed them already) and where did you buy them? P.S. I think 2.5 oil weight is a bit too thin although I haven't tried anything lighter than 7.5wt. However, because not everything written on the tin is always true, check these links as well: http://www.hrpworld.com/client_images/ecom.../pdf_3119_1.pdf http://www.spectro-oils.com/oilcom1.gif ]http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/images/...y-Data.gif http://www.motul.com.au/product_line_up/fo..._blendchart.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Now is there any quicker or easier way to change the springs etc, without having to drop the forks out completely? Yes. Assuming you've already changed the oil and set the air gap, all you really need to do is get the front wheel off the ground, pull the fork caps, remove exisiting springs and spacers and drop in whatever you're replacing them with. Keep in mind any oil you pull out with the springs and spacers will effect air gap, so let 'em drain into the fork tubes for as long as possible. It's very important you get the weight off the front wheel before pulling the fork caps. Bad things will happen if you ignore this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcticflipper Posted December 23, 2005 Author Share Posted December 23, 2005 the Ilburs is 245mm in length. What is the usual weight fork oil that you guys use here? 5, 7.5? The original OEM springs require a Honda SS-8 fork fluid, not too sure what the weight was on those. Will check the bottle to see. Might have to replace the oil again with the Wilburs springs. Redbird, I've seen under how much pressure those springs are in there, even the OEM's. I aggree, don't really want to replace the roof if one of them gets away from me... lol Will try the fitment on the bike if the oil weight (SS-8) is correct, else will have to remove them again. Oh I got the Wilburs directly from the factory, but you can also get them in the States from www.wilbursusa.com. They also ship directly from the factory. They don't really keep stock as far as I understood from them. The K-Tech's I found in South Africa from WMP Suspensions - Capetown based company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted December 23, 2005 Share Posted December 23, 2005 Honda SS-8 is 10w oil. Most go to 7.5w or 5w, though I'm sure there's some out there that have gone with the Wilburs recommended 2.5w. Sounds awfully thin to me, but I'll let someone who's tried it give their opinion. Redbird, I've seen under how much pressure those springs are in there, even the OEM's.I aggree, don't really want to replace the roof if one of them gets away from me... lol Umm, no. The cap will retain the spring and they've got very little preload from the factory, anyway. What will happen is your front suspension will completely collapse as soon as you pull the second cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcticflipper Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 Update: Changed to the Wilbers fork springs today, not a big job but just very time consuming. Used Putoline 5W Fork oil, wiht a 150mm air gap. The Wilbers springs are a little bit longer than the OEM springs. Dropped the front down by 8.5 mm, and left the rear standard. I've not yet set the static sage etc, will do this tomorrow. One question though. The front feels a bit spongy, especially when I accelerate. It feels a lot better over bumps and dips. Does the oil and springs still have to settle properly? will the spongy feeling go away, or did I do something wrong? Could this also be becaus I have not yet set the sag etc on the bike or due to the fact that I have not yet used a 6mm shim on the rear shock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Any "spongyness" is most likely a result of the lighter fork oil, and perhaps the 150mm air gap. I Know earlier models had different specs, but my '01 calls for 142mm. No idea what year your's is. Too much sag will make all this worse. Check and set your sag, ride it enough to get used to the new setup, and report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Unless you didn't bleed the air out of the oil by stroking the fork tube and the damping rod some 20 times what you're feeling is where it will stay. Is the 150mm airgap what Wilbers wanted it set up to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcticflipper Posted January 8, 2006 Author Share Posted January 8, 2006 I did make sure to do the 20 strokes on both inner and outer parts, think I might have done more than 20 to make sure that all the air was out. The 150mm is according to Wilbers, they did suggest a 2.5W oil, but I thought this might be a little too thin. I will set the sag, as soon as possible, and also take it for a nice long ride to check if I can pick up any improvements in handeling etc. I have noticed that it is much smoother over bumps and niks with the new Wilbers springs and current setup - besides the spongy feeling during acceleration. Will post my findings. Oh it's a 2002 model. If I remember correctly, I think the standard air gap for the 02 was also 143mm or 142mm, but the oil weight was 10W and the steering from the yolk to the to was something like 39mm, I've added 8.5mm which isn't really noticable yet - have not spent enough time in the saddle since the changes yet. Oh and my weight is +- 150 pounds - I know , midget and a lightweight too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 More questions from a Newbie. I understand the static and loaded sag setup. My bigger question is suspension rake. This will change when we shim the rear, or install longer/stronger front springs. Google indicates that rake is head angle. On the XX I suspect fork tube angle will be close. Google also showed 1999 XX rake specification to be 25 degrees. I assume this is measured with static sag, and no shims. Has anyone ever measured rake after installation of shims. Where would you measure a level point on the bike? The bike must be level, before a accurate rake measurement could be made. Since Hyperpro has the forks droped after installation of their product, it must be important. I would like a better measurement process than " lower the forks xxxx mm. Thanks, Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcticflipper Posted January 9, 2006 Author Share Posted January 9, 2006 OK I've now done +- 100 km on the XX in the rain - with the Wilbers springs and setup according to their specs. The only thing i did was use 5W fork oil instead of the suggested 2.5W, Oh and the drop on the front. On the plus side: 1. Bike does not dive as much during hard braking 2. Much smoother over bumps and rough roads. 3. Better feedback from the road surface Negative side: 1. The tail feels way too light 2. Front feels heavier than before - after the 8.5mm drop 3. Is a real bitch to handle in the wet now - slides front and rear very quickly. Very negative :shock: Lost the stability in wet weather. The rear looses tracktion very easily. I wonder if I did not drop the front too much? Maybe I read the marks on the measuring tool wrong! :shock: The spongyness has gone at least. I think the oil just had to settle? I will take the 8.5mm drop out, and set it back to OEM specs and ride it again. I think the OEM from the yolk to the top of the fork was 39mm I will recheck the sag etc, just to make sure that it is set correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcticflipper Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 Update: Set the front forks to the OEM specs = 39mm and rechecked and set the static and loaded sag. The bike now feels a lot better, still do every now and then get a bit of a rear wheel spin in the rain, but mainly due to a heavy throttle hand. Plus point - I'm not getting water sprayed onto my nek from the rear wheel anymore, and it does feel so much more controlled with the Wilbers springs in. I will ride the bike as is for the next week and then send the forks in for the K-Teck setup + re-valving. Will keep you posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcticflipper Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 Yip 150mm as per their (Wilbers) instructions. Sorry PUG, got them through www.wilbersusa.com - they were shipped directly from Germany to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.