Yo TJ!!!! Bovine protein and effect on pancreas question

[Hobicus]

TJ:

What do you know about cow milk, cream, cheese, etc, and their effect on the pancreas's beta cell reproduction???

My father-in-law has been researching the topic, and has found that there are examples whereby taking children off of bovine milk has had a significant impact on diabetes in children. He's got adult onset diabetes in his family, and is 67, so he's concerned.

I remember that we weren't supposed to give my kids cows milk until they were about a year or so, and then we were supposed to give them whole milk until they were about 2. Mostly because it was supposed to cause bleeding in the intestines at a young age.

I'm asking because he's interested in finding out if he should cut back (or completely remove) cow milk (in the form of cream and cheese, being Atkins) from his diet. He's been doing Atkins for a while and has recently been tracking his blood sugar, and since cutting milk out of his diet has seen a drop in his blood sugar. Before dropping milk, he was at 120 (2 week average), and afterwards he's at about 100 (2 week average) or so.

Enlighten us, oh diet guru!

Thanks!

[spEEdfrEEk]

Good questions!

What do you know about cow milk, cream, cheese, etc, and their effect on the pancreas's beta cell reproduction???

First of all, let me come out and say that I'm not a big fan of

dairy. Why? Well, in all of my research into human nutrition and

evolution it became aparent to me that we (as humans) were

never designed to consume the milk of other animals.

There are many reasons I could list (practically endless), but I will

leave you with these:

1) If you are a paleo-human with a stick and a rock as your only

technology, and you are hunting for food, are you going to tackle

the cow in the field and suckle it's teets (while it's still alive), or

are you gonna knock it on the head, carve it into steaks and take

it home with you? (we're not evolved for dairy, just the meat..)

2) Humans lose the ability to produce the enzyme that breaks

down milk sugars in large amounts around age 2, care to guess

why? Think about what that means, and you'll have your answer

to whether or not humans should be consuming milk at all..

(let alone cows milk)

One of the things I discovered (shockingly) was that milk

was one of the most allergenic substances known to man (second

only to gluten..). When you chronically load your body with

an allergen, it wreaks havok on your immune system, and that

can cause many, many diseases of degeneration over time.

I have not explicitly studied the effects of dairy on the

pancreas per se, but I have seen studies that consumption

of dairy is linked to excess mucus build up in body organs.

If your father-in-law is an adult onset diabetic, he shouldn't be

drinking milk anyway, as it is pretty high in carbohydrate content..

(specially fat-free milks)

My father-in-law has been researching the topic, and has found that there are examples whereby taking children off of bovine milk has had a significant impact on diabetes in children.

I don't doubt it.. Probably have the same effect for kids

that consume the milk of other animals as well. (goat, yak,

etc.)

I remember that we weren't supposed to give my kids cows milk until they were about a year or so, and then we were supposed to give them whole milk until they were about 2.    Mostly because it was supposed to cause bleeding in the intestines at a young age.

If I had kids, I would have a tremendously hard time giving

them cows milk at all. I would hope to convice the mother (whoever

she may be, ha ha) that she's the best source of nutrition for the baby..

And encourage her to breast feed as long as possible. (you

wouldn't believe the importance of this to the childs immune

system..)

I'm asking because he's interested in finding out if he should cut back (or completely remove)  cow milk (in the form of cream and cheese, being Atkins) from his diet.

Let me put it to you this way. I have tried to minimize dairy

in my diet for years now. The only time I have cream is when

I make low-carb ice cream for my grandmother (she gets a

sweet tooth now and then..), and when I do have it, I wake up

the next day with mild flu-like (read allergic) symptoms.

I haven't eliminated all cheeses from my diet though. In general,

cheeses have lower levels of lactose, and are mostly protein

and fats. I'll allow myself to have a variety of cheeses every once

in a while, but I still do keep consumption of them much lower

than someone who's doing a strict Atkins.. (like I said long ago,

my diet is not Atkins, it's cyclical ketogenic-paleolithic..)

In general, I believe that all dairy should be minimized. If

you have to have some, your best bet is some cottage cheese

with some flax seed oil in it.. (seek info on "Budwig Diet")

He's been doing Atkins for a while and has recently been tracking his blood sugar, and since cutting milk out of his diet has seen a drop in his blood sugar.  Before dropping milk, he was at 120 (2 week average), and afterwards he's at about 100 (2 week average) or so.

That's probably mostly due to the fact that he's dropped the

sugar when he dropped the dairy. Milk has alot more carbohydrate

in it than you think.. Check the container sometime.

Enlighten us, oh diet guru!

My advice? Cut out milk completely. As a diabetic, his immune

system is under stress as it is. There's no point to dumping a

major allergen into the mix to make things worse. If he wants

dairy, give him some good hard cheeses (sharp cheddar, swiss,

etc.) but keep it to the minimum he can stand. If he gets a

sweet tooth, the low-carb ice creams and stuff are fine.. Again,

you've gotta cut loose every once in a while (or you'll lose your

mind, ha ha), but moderation is the key..

Thanks!

No sweat bud! Sorry for the delay, I had no idea this thread

had started. The forum didn't alert me with the "yellow page"

symbol it usually uses..

:cool: TJ :cool:

[Hobicus]

Thanks TJ.

He's not necessarily a diabetic, but has had it in his family. At 68, he's just trying to extend his life :???:

Keeps telling me to not ride motorcycles.... :mad:

Because he's doing Atkins, he's cut out most dairy from his diet anyways, with the exception of cream in his (decaf) coffee. He drinks coffee all day long (as opposed to me, who has his morning jolt and is good for the day). He's not much of a cheese eater.

Thanks for your response!

Rich

[VeloXXiraptor]

TJ,

what about raw milk that hasn't been pasteurized or homogenized? Or goat's milk for that matter? Are these as bad for you as the typical milk bought at the local grocery store?

Jim

[spEEdfrEEk]

TJ,

    what about raw milk that hasn't been pasteurized or homogenized?  Or goat's milk for that matter?  Are these as bad for you as the typical milk bought at the local grocery store?

Jim

To be honest, I don't really think the processing makes that

big of a difference. Like I said before:

let me come out and say that I'm not a big fan of  

dairy. Why? Well, in all of my research into human nutrition and  

evolution it became aparent to me that we (as humans) were  

never designed to consume the milk of other animals

I never drink milk, and the only dairy I consume are cheeses,

which are primarily fats and have lower levels of galactose

(sugar in milk)

The research I did into dairy indicated the closest match to

human milk (nutritionally) was canine milk. That pretty much

told me all I needed to know. Not what I call appetizing! hahaha..

:cool: TJ :cool:

[SwampNut]

Well, have you ever tried it? Might be good...

As a child I absolutely HATED milk. I was forced to drink it, because, as everybody "knew" back then, it's good for you. Turns out I've always had lactose problems but just could not express them. When you're force-fed milk 1-2 times daily, you figure the gastrointestinal problems are just endemic, not milk-related.

I really can't remember when was the last time I drank milk. I have had heavy cream in real ice cream, and eat cheeses (preference for hard cheeses and sharp cheddar), which don't bother me.

Note that the lighter the milk, the more sugar/lactose in it. Heavy cream, ironically, is healthiest, while skim is the worst.

[spEEdfrEEk]

I was forced to drink it, because, as everybody "knew" back then, it's good for you.

Yup, amazing how the dairy industry has convinced everyone

how "healthy" it is. Ironic, because it seems so obviously wrong

when you think about it.. (it's like suckling the teets of a different

creature, ya know?)

Turns out I've always had lactose problems but just could not express them.

Everyone is lactose intolerant after age 2. You were just lucky

that you had a bigger reaction to it so you got off of it at a

younger age. I was allergic to the stuff when I was young, but

somehow "trained" myself to deal with the allergies. Needless

to say I'm glad to be free of it now.

I have had heavy cream in real ice cream, and eat cheeses (preference for hard cheeses and sharp cheddar), which don't bother me.

Yep, that should be the case as the sharp cheeses and heavier creams

are less dangerous. It all goes back to the simple rule: more fat = good,

more sugar = bad :grin:

:cool: TJ :cool:

[N1K]

Accidentally clicked into this forum today...

I drink a gallon of skim milk a day.

I've always been looking for alternatives, but I need something with the protein content of milk.

And I absolutely can't do soy. (I've read that soy raises your estrogen levels.... not good for bodybuilding)

So I'd be interested in a milk substitute only requirements being that it would have to be similar protein content to milk.

Any suggestions? (oh, and similar or less in cost then milk..)

What about powdered milk???? Is that high sugar?

[spEEdfrEEk]

Accidentally clicked into this forum today...

Any suggestions?  (oh, and similar or less in cost then milk..)

Whey protein is basically the only good stuff in Milk. You

can buy it cheaply from a variety of sources, and avoid

all of the allergenic stuff about dairy.

To be honest, though, Whey (just like Milk) is not the best

protein. It's only 80% bioavailable. A better choice is pure

egg protein.

I chunk down about 25g of pure egg after lifting and my

recovery is much faster. It's 85% bioavailable and similarly

priced.

(or you could go the old fashioned route and just suck down

a half dozen egg-whites after a hard session..)

To be honest, if it's the protein you want, it's better just

to eat meats.

You can get far more use out of the protein you put in your

body if you time it right, rather than just eat a bunch of it.

If I were in your shoes Nik, I would suck down about 2 cups

of 100% pure grape juice + 50g of pure egg protein after

each workout. Then stay low carb the rest of the time.

I put on some serious lean mass (going from 158 to 217 lbs)

that way a few years back.. Did it mostly by loading glucose

and branched chained aminos within 30 mins of lifting.

(you can hop on an exercycle to keep heart rate up and

speed up glycogen uptake)

If you want, I can explain the biomedicine behind why this works.

It has to do with insulin response and IGFs..

By the way, if you load AFA Algae tablets about 30 mins before

lifting, you can also keep yourself virus and cancer free..

(no lie..)

Later bud!

:cool: TJ :cool:

[N1K]

OK...

Here's my dilemna...

I can only make tiny tiny incremenatal changes in my diet, otherwise, I'll have NO idea what worked, and what didn't work in my workout/feeding routine....

I don't want to pollute this thread with my feeding schedule... I'll leave this one to milk...

I'll start a new thread... I'd like to get your feedback on what I eat.