Pete in PA Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 I just changed to Mobil 1 5-40 truck and SUV oil (finally in stock at $19.99 for 5qt. jug at wally world) after running M1 15-50 for a looong time. BIG change. the 15-50 IS too thick and sapping power. 40 deg. F. cold starts are easier and I noticed I had to brake more and didn't immediately figure out why. Less drag on the engine = less engine braking. Also shifts great as usual. I'm a convert. Going to dyno at the HP shootout tomorrow morning. Had 136 last year. With the oil, carb changes and derestricted pipes I'm hopeing for 140. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 I am running Shell 5W-40 in my bike now as Mobil 1 red cap jugs are gone.. Shifting feels the same, wanna see about dropping her onto the dyno again when I do a few other little tweeks.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookman49 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 I am running Shell 5W-40 in my bike now as Mobil 1 red cap jugs are gone.. Shifting feels the same, wanna see about dropping her onto the dyno again when I do a few other little tweeks.. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockmeupto125 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Same here, Pete. OMG.....1800 miles in Tennesee.....1700 in Kentucky.... DAMN! Time to change the oil again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Why not go all the way and use zero weight? :? No thanks, I will lose the few HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted May 6, 2005 Author Share Posted May 6, 2005 Why not go all the way and use zero weight? :? No thanks, I will lose the few HP. Hey, 10-40 is the recommended oil for our bike. 5-40 ONLY means it will flow quicker when cold, when the engine warms it's a 40 weight. Can't wait till tommorow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squareman357 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Yeah I went to Honda HP4 10W-40 after I couldn't get the red cap M1 anymore, and for me the most noticable thing was a drop in running temps. At full bore on M1 15/50 my temps would be about 190 to 192 and would shoot up to about 230 at idle. When running the 10W40, at full bore my temps are around 180, in similar ambient temperatures, and at idle about 215 to 220. <shrug> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookman49 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Yeah I went to Honda HP4 10W-40 after I couldn't get the red cap M1 anymore, and for me the most noticable thing was a drop in running temps. At full bore on M1 15/50 my temps would be about 190 to 192 and would shoot up to about 230 at idle. When running the 10W40, at full bore my temps are around 180, in similar ambient temperatures, and at idle about 215 to 220. <shrug> Hummm, Does anyone have a answer to this? I would have thought that the temps would have been higher with the 10W40 over the 15/50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dion Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Yeah I went to Honda HP4 10W-40 after I couldn't get the red cap M1 anymore, and for me the most noticable thing was a drop in running temps. At full bore on M1 15/50 my temps would be about 190 to 192 and would shoot up to about 230 at idle. When running the 10W40, at full bore my temps are around 180, in similar ambient temperatures, and at idle about 215 to 220. <shrug> Hummm, Does anyone have a answer to this? I would have thought that the temps would have been higher with the 10W40 over the 15/50. Yeah Ken, It's still early spring and not summer yet :poke: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hookman49 Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Yeah I went to Honda HP4 10W-40 after I couldn't get the red cap M1 anymore, and for me the most noticable thing was a drop in running temps. At full bore on M1 15/50 my temps would be about 190 to 192 and would shoot up to about 230 at idle. When running the 10W40, at full bore my temps are around 180, in similar ambient temperatures, and at idle about 215 to 220. <shrug> Hummm, Does anyone have a answer to this? I would have thought that the temps would have been higher with the 10W40 over the 15/50. Yeah Ken, It's still early spring and not summer yet :poke: FAG!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Oil is thinner and flowing faster allowing for more oil to be cooled at a faster rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dion Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Yeah I went to Honda HP4 10W-40 after I couldn't get the red cap M1 anymore, and for me the most noticable thing was a drop in running temps. At full bore on M1 15/50 my temps would be about 190 to 192 and would shoot up to about 230 at idle. When running the 10W40, at full bore my temps are around 180, in similar ambient temperatures, and at idle about 215 to 220. <shrug> Hummm, Does anyone have a answer to this? I would have thought that the temps would have been higher with the 10W40 over the 15/50. Yeah Ken, It's still early spring and not summer yet :poke: FAG!!! :gayfight: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 I tried Mobil 15 40 and noticed I got worse gas mileage, more clutch noise during warmup. I use Amsoil 10 40 synthetic. It seems the best of all the oils I tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted May 7, 2005 Author Share Posted May 7, 2005 THAT'S what's missing! I don't have that clutch rattle when starting cold! Another plus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Oil is thinner and flowing faster allowing for more oil to be cooled at a faster rate. Also flowing faster thru the oil cooler, thereby losing time to cool the oil? Can't have it both ways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squareman357 Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Oil is thinner and flowing faster allowing for more oil to be cooled at a faster rate. Also flowing faster thru the oil cooler, thereby losing time to cool the oil? Can't have it both ways... Also flowing faster thru engine, thus not having enough time to get as hot? :twisted: LOL! You can go either way with that one J, but I can tell you for a fact I've gotten roughly 10 degrees cooler both at idle and running at 85 mph in 6th gear. Dunno which "fact" mentioned here is responsible for my cooler running, but it's all good either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Also flowing faster thru the oil cooler, thereby losing time to cool the oil?Can't have it both ways... Come on, Jeremy... We both know there's an ideal flow rate for maximum cooling, and neither of us know what it is, exactly. If the 15-50 is too thick (something I mentioned a while ago, but was met with resistance...:roll:), then it will definitely inhibit cooling to some degree. FWIW, race teams run 0-20 oil on stock coolers with modified engines, and have no heating issues. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomek Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Oil is thinner and flowing faster allowing for more oil to be cooled at a faster rate. Also flowing faster thru the oil cooler, thereby losing time to cool the oil? Can't have it both ways... No, it is opposite,heat exchange rate will increase when water,oil flows faster thru radiator,up to a point (cavitation) ,try running cooling system without water pump and see what happens. Ouside air cools radiator fins and tubes,faster the air flow,better cooling effect,the same happens inside radiator. Thinner oil due to the fact that it flows faster thru the engine and oil cooler can carry away heat more efficiently.And how about windchill factor ? It feels colder outside in high winds becouse you loose body heat faster.Same here. There is physical formula that describes that,it could be found in thermodynamics book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Ouside air cools radiator fins and tubes,faster the air flow,better cooling effect,the same happens inside radiator.. To a point. There is a point of diminishing returns regarding air flow past the radiator. Faster is not necessarily better. You need air flow, but ever increasing air flow doesn't help. Faster the air flow or water flow, less heat is carried away from the cooler. Take a look at the thermo book again. The fluid or cooling medium needs to stay in contact for an amount of time to transfer the heat energy. Example: Take a gallon of boiling fluid, and put it in the freezer, with the intent of cooling it down to room temperature. Less time in the freezer is better? How long will you leave it in there? Another example: Take a pot of room temp water, and put it on a preheated burner. Does it boil immediately? The same is true of the engine block, faster flow thru it, less heat it can absorb. Laws of thermodynamics apply equally to both things. The systems (cooling, oil) in the engine are set up, so that the fluid flowing thru them will linger to remove heat from the engine, and carry that to the coolers, and linger to transfer it to the air. A system. Change a component of the system, and you're changing the whole system. Thinner oil due to the fact that it flows faster thru the engine and oil cooler can carry away heat more efficiently. If the purpose of oil is to carry away heat from the bearings, don't you want it to stay a while to even get warm? It's not cooling better, it's simply not taking away heat, instead leaving it in the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squareman357 Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 A system. Change a component of the system, and you're changing the whole system. Then wouldn't we actually be changing the system by using 15W50 M1 instead of the MOM specified 10W40? In that case, wouldn't I have been returning my system to default by using the Honda HP4 10W40 Synth? <shrug> You guys are a lot smarter mechanically than I am, so I tend to stay out of these discussions, but facts are facts, I'm am definitely running cooler under similar ambient temperatures, thus to me that says that the 10W40 is better cooling my system down than the 15W50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 We both know there's an ideal flow rate for maximum cooling, and neither of us know what it is, exactly. Agreed. If the 15-50 is too thick (something I mentioned a while ago, but was met with resistance...:roll:), then it will definitely inhibit cooling to some degree. If it is too thick, yes. FWIW, race teams run 0-20 oil on stock coolers with modified engines, and have no heating issues. :wink: Fact? I'm not so sure. They're also moving all the time, and have plenty of air. Street bikes are stopped often, they don't have the luxury. Plus, awesome engine longevity on a race bike (I'm talking pro ranks) would make a street bike owner pissed. They change engines more often than I change oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted May 7, 2005 Author Share Posted May 7, 2005 WELL, heating and cooling aside, my dyno day sucked. Last year at 42K miles. I got 136HP. This year at 55K miles. I got 135HP. :evil: Same dyno, same software, same printout. Trying to figure out what happened. :? Maybe I'm starting to have engine wear. :cry: I was SURE my various changes would give me more power. I can feel it seat of the pants. Maybe it's just better throttle response, not more power. Ideas?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Humidity/temp differences? Hell, the Dyno may have been re-calibrated in the last year. Hard to realistically compare runs that far apart. Of course, I had mine dynoe'd at 5k miles three years ago, and plan on doing it again to see what kind of gains I got from the PCII and Akra at 35k. So my "baseline" is especially ridiculous- no room to talk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdxx Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Successive dyno runs taken immediately after making a single change (say, an air filter, for instance), when other variables are kept to a minimum, may offer some real empirical information regarding performance gain or loss. Runs taken years and thousands of miles and mods apart offer nothing more than snapshots of current performance, and that's not factoring in dyno calibration or ambient weather conditions. I wouldn't sweat it. The XX motor is getting old, technically speaking, but is still quite a horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted May 8, 2005 Share Posted May 8, 2005 WELL, heating and cooling aside, my dyno day sucked. I told you about using that thin oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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