The Krypt Keeper Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 My story had nothing to do with oil, just oil samples can't predict all future problems.. on the 980 Cat the cannecting rod went snap, crackle and pop :shock: Why? who knows.. I know it had oil, as it takes like 25 gallons :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedygeezer Posted January 3, 2005 Author Share Posted January 3, 2005 Go for it, Joe - it will provide more data. :idea: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedygeezer Posted January 3, 2005 Author Share Posted January 3, 2005 Eric, would you classify yourself as a practicing rabble-rouser? :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodeRash Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I always check to label to make sure my oil does not contain any "Trans Fats" Gotta keep that LDL down. :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockmeupto125 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Sorry to burst your bubble, Flash, but don't expect your trans to last past the 50k mark. Those transmission fats are what keep the thing shifting and not popping out of gear. LDL's (lead dog lycines) are the essential lubricant to prevent the corners of the shifter dogs from rounding off. Eliminate them, and there's bare metal on bare metal. Sooner or later, it'll be toast. You guys and your hairbrained idea.......... :razz: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedygeezer Posted January 3, 2005 Author Share Posted January 3, 2005 Alright, you thread hi-jackers..........KNOCK THAT SHIT OFF!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Eric, would you classify yourself as a practicing rabble-rouser? :wink: Aaa Yes, when I'm in the mood. :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I've been thinking about throwing regular synth in my '99 along with some moly.........just to flip the bird at established thought and to see what happens. There's nothing to fuck up but the clutch plates, and I know how to change them. I put almost 3000 on my bird last spring with the Blue Cap M1 with no harsh side effects for a Normally Operated Bird Rider. Went to Arkansas on it, pulled a couple power wheelies, did a fair share of high speed runs, and never had a problem with slippage. In fact.... I really think it improved the shifting dramatically. And I know you're not a racer so.... go for it. Like you said they're only clutch plates. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 And I know you're not a racer so.... go for it. Like you said they're only clutch plates. Hope they never do slip on you... Blackbird is one heavy bitch....when you have to push it :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockmeupto125 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Believe me....I know how heavy it is to push. But I'm quite happy with the stock XX clutch. NeXXT showed 24 back to back dragstrip runs, and if you watched the latest video, I'm not that easy on it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 Mobil 1 15/50W changing it every 5K, makes it REALLY easy to remember "when" as I change it on the 5K mark (ie 5K, 10K, 15K on the odomter). I have seen absolutely NO scientific backing to change oil any earlier only people feeling guilty... Steve I might try using massage oil next but Mobil 1 works for now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 NeXXT showed 24 back to back dragstrip runs, and if you watched the latest video, I'm not that easy on it...... What video? And Just to re-intorate, Moly sticks to metal via light sulfer bonds, your Clutch discs aren't metal to metal, and in any event you're talking about a ppm content of around 90.... nothing close to what it takes to cause a bad slippage problem. Heck some of your raceing Oils have upwards of 500 ppm. Which still begs the question.... if small amounts of Moly in the Oil was bad, then why would anyone put in a raceing bike in a raceing environment? ( I guess if you want to try a tell me they don't have to worry about acceleration, because they'll just make it up in the corners.... :roll: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockmeupto125 Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I'm not talking oil with moly in it, I'm talking about additional moly additive. Here's the vid. http://larson.home.insightbb.com/teaser.wmv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted January 3, 2005 Share Posted January 3, 2005 I'm not talking oil with moly in it, I'm talking about additional moly additive. Oh... I've got some of that. :twisted: Cool Vid by the way...... Now I'm really jealious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 I remember when I put slick 50 in a motorcycle LONG ago when it first came out. That was a HUGE mistake, clutch hardley grabbed at-all. I doubt it was the motorcycle version :] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Slick 50 is a different animal all together...... its 'Magic ingredient' is Teflon. :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedygeezer Posted January 4, 2005 Author Share Posted January 4, 2005 Ah, yes - good ol' Slick 50. In 1987 I became the 2nd distributor in KS for those products. At that time, the original owners of it (in TX) still had tight control of distribution and product formula. A friend of mine from OK sent me a quart and told me to try it. My test mule was a 1970 Barracuda Gran Sport convertible with a worn out 318. You could hear the lifters clattering a block away and it used a quart of oil every 100 miles. My wife used it for her 2 mile commute to work. The carrier oil for the teflon was straight 30 wt and you had to shake the bottle vigorously to mix the ingredients properly. Back then, there was about 1/2" of teflon particles that would settle to the bottom of the container after it sat for a while. Lots of good stuff, eh? So I changed the oil and added the Slick 50 and took the car for a test drive. 200 miles later, the lifter noise disappeared, gas mileage increased and it eventually took 500 miles to burn a qt of oil. I was hooked, and sold a great deal of their products thru my Goodyear store and never had a single complaint. Cost was $17.95/qt and we sold it for $34.95/qt. Life was good. Well, just like a big dick, all good things must come to an end, and the company sold out to a mass marketer and we distributors were left out in the cold. The percentage of teflon in their products also declined, such that it no longer did it's intended job as well, and I quit using it. The company sold several more times and is now owned by Conoco, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Here is some great info for those interested in Moly, Teflon, and grafite. I copied it from somewhere... The influence of molybdenum disulphide and graphite, in the range of 1-50%, on the load/wear properties of military grease XG-279 was demonstrated using four-ball test method IP 239. The molybdenum disulphide greases generally exhibited superior anti-seize and anti-wear properties. Graphite grease containing more than 5% solid additive exhibited superior load-carrying capacity. The optimum load / wear of the MoS2 and graphite greases appeared to be achieved in the 5% and 10-20% range of additive respectively. The findings of the investigation were adopted in the UK MoD specifications for greases XG-276 (5% MoS2) and XG-273 (10% Graphite). Molybdenum disulphide is an important molybdenum ore (molybdenite) and shows a layer lattice similar to that of <graphit.htm> and boron nitride . Because of the lubrication properties caused by the crystal lattice molybdenum disulfide can be used as a solid lubricant, however only in a close temperature range from -185°C to approx. 350°C. Despite its high melting point of 1900°C it already oxidizes at air starting from 315°C. Molybdenum Disulphide loaded lubricating coating designed for operating conditions up to 300ºC (570ºF). For use where high wear and pitting occur and as a protection against fretting. Where short service life occurs due to chemical attack, corrosion or high temperature or where lubrication intervals are too short. Resistant to dry heat to 300ºC (570ºF), Skydrol, ester lubricants and corrosive engine by-products. What is dry film lubrication? Dry lubrication materials provide low coefficients of friction; reduce wear, slip/stick, corrosion, etc. These films include long chain molecules such as PTFE, FEP, PFA, ETFE, etc. Lamella structure materials such as molybdenum disulfide, tungsten disulfide and electric furnace graphite are extensively employed. Soft metals such as lead, babbit, brass, etc., can fall into the lubricant category. These materials are used singly, or in combination to achieve desired results. General Dry Lubricant Properties: Each dry lubricating material has different properties. The long chain molecules tend to have wetting angles that promote release & preclude sticking. These are generally the fluorocarbon films. Lamella lubricating powders have low shear between basal planes. Most dry lubrication film materials work well in dry environments and they are excellent supplemental or boundary layer materials in fluid systems. Graphite, molybdenum disulfide & tungsten disulfide are oilioscopic. Their structure does not tolerate detergents well. These layer lattice lamella structures are analogous to stacks of non-adherent plates, which, with slight tangential loading, slip out of place. It’s something like walking across a room full of flat slippery plates. These lamella materials have good load bearing capacity in sliding and rolling mode. Graphite has high temperature capability and functions well in radiation atmospheres. MoS2 and WS2 function well in hard vacuum and tolerate higher loads better than graphite. The part substrate, surface finish, operating environment, environmental and operating temperatures have a bearing on your dry lubricant selection. Where you have a problem with fretting corrosion; wear incident to loads or environment; galling & seizing due to your base materials or operating temperature; contamination; reactive potentials or just inaccessibility to wet lubrication conditions exist, look to dry lubrication solutions. Long Chain Molecule Lubricants: DuPont Corporation was the discoverer & initial developer of the linear long chain molecule "polytetrafluoroethylene" commonly called PTFE. They brand named this development TeflonÒ . The chemical formula is [C2F4]N. PTFE is a saturated aliphatic fluorocarbon, is almost completely inert, and has very low surface energy with little tendency to bond to other materials. The coefficient of static and dynamic friction is nearly equal at about the level of wet ice on wet ice. It is not wetted by and does not absorb water, and is unaffected by acids, bases and solvent normal to industry at temperatures under 500° F. Gamma radiation affects strength and X-ray affects dielectric. Pure PTFE creeps under load. PTFE particles produced by dispersion polymerization are .02 in size. Particles produced by granular polymerization are several hundred microns in size and of much higher molecular weight. Granular particles are fused by sintering at approximately 800° F. Sintered PTFE is not suitable for chemical resistant coatings. DuPont is the sole manufacturer of TeflonÒ materials, however, they are not the sole manufacturer of PTFE. Other common fluoropolymers are fluorinated ethylene propylene (FEP) and perfluoralkoxy (PFA). These are considered melt coatings and have excellent release and chemical resistance within their temperature constraints. For example, with sodium hydroxide FEP can be used to 248° F. and PFA will tolerate 300° F. FEP has the best overall release, especially with high sugar content such as candy. PFA has nearly as good a release quality in most applications and is much more durable than FEP. Due to lower molecular weight, both have a higher coefficient of friction under load and in dynamic conditions than PTFE. Neither equals the wear quality of PTFE. These fluoropolymers can be blended into a resin bonded system or used in their melt or sintered form. Single coat systems are all resin bonded. All the basic sintered or melt systems are primer coat plus topcoat. Some systems such as ceramic reinforced or special cookware coatings are three coats and more. Heavy (thick) build-ups are all multi-coats. Cost goes up with each coat applied. Some heavy coats require an application called "hot flocking". Heavy coatings do not provide as good an appearance and are not as smooth as thin films. Many firms manufacture generic versions of these materials. Other firms utilize the materials in the manufacture of resin bonded release/lubrication products. Most longwearing films are of the resin bonded type. While the fluoropolymer filler is distributed throughout the carrier resin, due to the poor wetting contact angles, a significant amount floats to the surface of the resin film during cure. This lowers static friction and improves release in resin-bonded systems especially during initial use. Molybdenum disulfide (MoS2): The use of molybdenum disulfide dates back hundreds of years. Present technology dates back to the 1920’s. D.O.D., N.A.S.A. and the Society of Tribological and Lubrication Engineers (formerly A.S.L.E.) collected much of the work. Molybdenum disulfide (a.k.a. Moly or MoS2) is another of the lamella structure materials. Moly differs from graphite in a number of ways. Like graphite it has weak van der Waals forces between the basal planes. The bonds between the sulfur layers are weaker than the bonds between the molybdenum layers. The covalent bonds of both are strong in the basal plane. Moisture vapor is unnecessary for lubrication as slip occurs on the sulfur atoms. Tests in vacuum shows that friction decreases as vacuum increases. Friction decreases as load and surface speed increase. These results suggest that removing water vapor contamination decreases friction in molybdenum disulfide. In its operating range MoS2 has superior load bearing and surface speed performance values to graphite or tungsten disulfide. Moly disulfide is a naturally mined material. Quality grading varies with source. Most of the lubricant grade material used in the United States is mined at the Henderson & Climax mines in Colorado, is of very high quality, and is readily available. Particle size affects load carrying test results. Larger particles carry more loads. Friction is not a particle size variable. MoS2 oxidizes very slowly in atmospheres up to 600° F. In these low temperature ranges it oxidizes more slowly than tungsten disulfide (WS2). In dry oxygen free atmospheres it functions as a lubricant up to 1300° F. The oxidation products of MoS2 is molybdenum trioxide (MoO3) and sulfur dioxide. MoS3 is hydroscopic and causes many of the friction problems in standard atmosphere. MoO3 is itself a lubricant in dry atmospheres. MoO3 is of itself not abrasive, but attracts moisture vapor contamination. Moly is considered a semiconductor due to oxidation. Its photoelectric and bi-metallic behavior is erratic. As temperature approaches red heat it becomes a good conductor. Moly measures 1.0 on the moh’s scale. This is about the mean of graphite and about twice the hardness of tungsten disulfide (WS2). The issues of where molybdenum disulfide should be used versus graphite or tungsten disulfide is generally best addressed by your lubrication engineer. For most commercial applications these are relatively simple judgments. In aerospace applications where unique environments, and often-exotic materials are employed, these questions often take some substantial research to provide the best answers. Again, pretreatment of the substrate has a profound affect on performance of the lubricant. For example, steel that is grit blasted before a fine grain zinc phosphate out performs either single pretreatment. Typically, the higher quality of the pretreatment results in better lubricant performance. Cost vs. value is your choice. Molybdenum Disulphide: Based on its molecular structure (one layer of Molybdenum atoms between two layers of sulphur atoms). Molybdenum Disulphide has one of the lowest coefficient of friction known. Owing to the affinity of sulphur atoms for metal, Molybdenum Disulphide easily adhere to metal surfaces. It is also chemically stable and can withstand very high crushing force. What is Molygraphite? Molygraphite is the combination of Molybdenum Disulphide and Graphite. Elf Molygraphite is Elf's commitment to develop high quality lubricants that took into account the technological development of engines and conditions in which they operate... "Better performance, power, pick-up, better savings and enhanced safety". Lubricants containing Molygraphite that are produced and tested in the laboratory has been proven in harsh conditions of motor racing as well as daily challenges of ordinary engines. One coating, in particular, has gained attention in recent years, that of MoS2 molybdenum disulphide, or MoST as it is more popularly referred to, and termed a hard lubricant. Molybdenum disulphide, in colloidal suspensions, has been used to enhance lubricity in motor oil, in automotive engines, and in metalworking lubricants, for over 40 years. The atomic structure of MoS2 is much like that of carbon graphite, exhibiting hexagonal platelets, which slip readily over one another, reducing the coefficient of friction and so act as a lubricant. The coating of MoS2 by electro, magneto and plasma deposition has occurred only in recent times. Thus, a cutting tool may be manufactured with multiple coatings: those for heat resistance - aluminum oxide (Al2O3), oxidation resistance - titanium aluminum nitride (TiAlN), wear resistance - titanium nitride (TiN), and lubrication - molybdenum disulphide (MoS2). Hard lubricants have been promoted and used to prolong the life of cutting tools in dry and minimal-quantity lubrication applications. Dry machining generally results in a dramatic decrease in tool life due to the thermal softening, chipping and cracking of the tool material, however with hard lubricant coatings, tool life has been significantly extended in both dry and quasi-dry applications. That tool life has even been extended over and above the expected tool life for wet (flood) machining operations. The object of this work was to evaluate the oxidation resistant and hard lubricant coatings on the performance of plated cBN wheels when machining soft super alloy materials using a water-based cutting fluid. The performance of cBN has always been superior when using a straight oil versus a water-based fluid but environmental and health and safety issues have prompted the industry to look more closely at alternative fluids to straight oils. It was felt that the added lubricity from the molybdenum disulphide might also provide the potential to move away from straight oil grinding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedygeezer Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 Drained the oil in my '00 Bird. Bike had 15,350 miles on it, the oil had 10,045 miles on it. "Analysis indicates overall satisfactory conditions". Those are the lab's words. The viscosity tested at 10.57 on the CST@100*C scale which puts it in the 30 wt. class. Still acceptable, but down from the orginal 40 wt. Comparing this result to that of my '99 Bird which had 21.436 miles on it when the Mobil 1 was drained with 7.336 miles on it and which tested at the bottom of the 40 wt scale, the two oils are similar enough (except for price) to call it a draw. I refilled with Mobil 1, just to compare the two oils in this bike. Seems to me I remember reading somewhere that the viscosity of new oil drops rather rapidly during the first 1,000 miles, but that could be wrong. Maybe somebody else has the correct info on that score? Anyway, it is obvious that these two oils both hold up well under extended drain intervals. For what its worth, I ride almost every week of the year in temps from 40* to 100*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobicus Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Is this the Mobile 1 redcap, or the motorcycle variety? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedygeezer Posted March 26, 2005 Author Share Posted March 26, 2005 Redcap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickrad Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 WD-40 lasts forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobicus Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 WD-40 lasts forever. Especially on your scrotum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Of Pain Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 OIL LOL http://www.ducatimeccanica.com/oil.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willxx23 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Mobil 1 15-50 Extended Perf. has less moly than the Mobil mx4t. New Gold cap 15-50 Mobil 1 Ext. Perf. Mobil 1 MX4T 10-40 Harley Synthetic Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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