Charging Problems; Cycle Stop Honda Dealer Stinks!

[Buzz]

I've been griping about my Bird not holding a charge on the battery since I bought the bike brand new in December. Recently, I went for a 120 mile ride with the rpm in the upper part of the band for a good deal of the ride, shut the bike off and it was dead 4 days later.

This weekend, I rode 200 miles on Saturday with no problems. Started up the bike on Sunday and rode for an hour. Stopped for lunch. Didn't like the cafe (no restrooms), so we rode down the street to another cafe (with restrooms). After lunch, the battery was dead. Even the clock time was reset.

Finally called the local dealership in Salinas, CA. I've stopped in numerous times for misc stuff. Nice enough. I've heard that they aren't willing to negoiate on prices of bikes. Seems to corroborate the reason an '02 Silverbird is still on the showroom floor.

Anyway, back to the problem. Called them up to explain the charging issue and set up an appointment to get it in for service. After explaining about it the dealer asked who I purchased it from, which seems irrelavent to me. He said it sounds like a battery problem and I may need to take it bake to the dealer I bought it from, which is 100 miles away.

I'm thinking (A) This guy must be a phenominal service manager to be able to diagnose the problem over a telephone without even looking at the bike, and/or ( He's blowing me off since I didn't buy my bike from his dealership (that didn't have an '03 anyway).

I asked him about the possibility of it being an R/R problem since I've heard that is a noted problem on Birds. He said that they have never even performed a check on an R/R before. That was the final straw for me. I don't want to give my business to a dealer that is politely saying, "Go away. We don't want your business since you didn't buy the bike from us and we don't know what to do to diagnose your problem anyway."

So, given that call and now expecting a similar treatment from another dealer (but hoping for the best), I call another local dealer, Monterey Peninsula Powersports (which I have heard good things about) and talk with their service department. They are understanding about the problem and recommended that I bring it in so they could do a charging systems diagnostic on the bike. He even said the service manager rides a Bird.

The problem may not be solved, but now I am on the way to getting this resolved. Kudos to Monterey Pensinsula Powersports. Was this type of customer service so hard for Cycle Stop? Perhaps there is a reason why their store is always so empty. Others have been there, done that already.

Talk about shooting themsleves in the foot. I've already spent a lot of money on riding jacket, tank bag and supplies there and this is the way they treat customers. I may not have been able to purchase my bike at their store, but I will still need supplies, maintenance etc. I'm sure another time I will be eyeing the 2010 Blackbirds or whatever as well. Now, I know which dealership will be getting all my business.

[Grey_XX]

Kinda same problem here (changed the faulty R/R last week, warranty), changed the battery and still having the battery drain when I ride. It's back in the shop and they do a good job (Honda Milpitas).

If the first shop you talked about is Salinas MC, I've dealt with their sales dept once and they are liars/thieves.

We'll see where that goes.

Hugo

[Buzz]

Yes, the first shop is Salinas. Have you ever dealt with East Bay Motorsports in Hayward? That was where I bought my Bird. I don't know about their service dept, but the sales dept treated me well.

When did you buy your bike? When I bought mine in December, Milpitas had an '03 that I almost went for, but was about $300 more out-the-door.

[SwampNut]

Fuckwads.

But hey, you can diagnose it yourself with a $15 voltmeter from Radio Shack.

[Grey_XX]

Yes, the first shop is Salinas. Have you ever dealt with East Bay Motorsports in Hayward? That was where I bought my Bird. I don't know about their service dept, but the sales dept treated me well.  

I've never dealt with that shop.

When did you buy your bike? When I bought mine in December, Milpitas had an '03 that I almost went for, but was about $300 more out-the-door.

I bought it at San Mateo Honda (they suck). Had to go to Honda of Milpitas for a warranty repair (bad grounding). Now the bike is over two years old (02)/40kmiles but I have the extended warranty.

Hugo

[Grey_XX]

But hey, you can diagnose it yourself with a $15 voltmeter from Radio Shack.

Actually the dead R/R is an easy test, if the voltage does not go up when revving up, it's easy. The funny part is when the voltage does go up but not enough when loaded (fan + high beam).

I suspect the alternator not being its own self, but at this point it could be an excessive draw.

I wanted to start playing with the fuses when the 'fuck it, extended warranty' concept hit me.

Hugo

[Buzz]

I will be playing around with a voltmeter to see what I can find out. As with yours, the bike is still under warranty. Irregardless, any problem found will probably need replacement anyway.

Hugo, do you have much add-ons drawing additional power? I have an alarm and a GPS adapter, that's it. But this problem was there before those were installed.

[Grey_XX]

I will be playing around with a voltmeter to see what I can find out. As with yours, the bike is still under warranty. Irregardless, any problem found will probably need replacement anyway.

Considering it is under warranty, file a report/complaint with Honda customer service (dealership #1 does not want to do warranty repair). Also, let the shop know what you think of them and what you are doing about it (one of the sales guys tried to screw me over, I would have teared his head off).

Hugo, do you have much add-ons drawing additional power? I have an alarm and a GPS adapter, that's it. But this problem was there before those were installed.

Second-look tank skin :grin: , but that does not draw much. My bike is stock.

Hugo

[Buzz]

file a report/complaint with Honda customer service

Wouldn't hurt my feelings. Anyone know their number/email?

[Grey_XX]

From the HRCA:

-----------------------------------

Q: I understand that my dealer can take care of any situation relating to my Honda, but what if I am not happy with the service provided?

A: Yes, you are correct. Your dealer has skilled personnel who will be happy to assist you with any concern you may have. Discuss any unresolved issues with a member of the dealership management. Often these issues can be quickly resolved at this level. If your concern has already been reviewed with the Service Manager, then contact the General Manager or the owner of the dealership. We are confident of our dealer's ability to provide you with the highest level of service. If you wish to comment on your experiences with your dealer or your Honda (for USA residents and USA-certified products only), please send your comments to: American Honda Motor Co., Inc., Motorcycle Division, P O Box 2220, MS 100-4W-5B, Torrance, CA 90509-2220.

You may also telephone (310) 532-9811.

-----------------------------------------

That said there's another number (can't remember). Once the ticket is opened under warranty, it'll be logged under the bike's VIN.

Hugo

[Buzz]

Hugo, Very interesing. Thanks for the number. I will will be calling them withing the next day or so to discuss my experience and their lack of ability to be able to resolve it as HRCA stated they should be.

[Grey_XX]

This is getting better (on mine):

1500 rpms handles the low beam/brake lights (at the top of my head).

3500 handles high beam and brake lights.

Now why the fuck is it discharging when riding.

Hugo

[Buzz]

Hugo,

I remember your bike was in the shop. Did they find anything wrong with it at that time?

[CBR-RR-XX-CESS]

I asked a buddy of mine who lives in Salinas about this shop,here is his reply-

Hum, I guess you could say that since theyre the closest shop to me and located in Salinas. I still consider Mike & Jan Valencia, the owners my friends. Ive went to and ridden several endures with Jan. He got divorced about the same time I did 25 years ago and we did a lot of partying together.

Actually in the past Ive purchased a Honda Interceptor, a CR480, a CR500 and an XR250 from them. Thats when they were still into the motorcycle scene. (It was a good trade off because I sold Jans house for him and he purchased one from me. When I decided I wanted a 929 I went in to purchase one from them.) They didnt have one, said they couldnt order anymore and wouldnt even make a few calls to try and find one.

Needless to say I havent went back to purchase anything from them. Ill drive to Seaside if I only need a quart of oil. Its kind of funny now every time I get a new bike and bump into Mike or Jan they cant help but mention oh I see you have a new Honda 929/954 etc. They dont know about the seven other sales they lost from my son and friends that have purchased new bikes from Powersports from my recommendation.

So I went over to Powersports in Seaside, they didnt have any either but said if I wanted one they would find one for me. They ask what color I preferred, I told them yellow/black but would take any color they could find. A few days later the called and said they found a red/black one in the bay area I said great and they drove up and picked it up.

When they got it back to the shop the salesman made 18 calls to other dealers looking for someone that had a yellow/black one and would be willing to trade for the red/black one. The 18th call did the trick and they drove to San Jose to make the trade. They didnt charge any extra for all of the driving they had to do to get them either. Now thats what I call service. Its been like that every since then, no matter what theyll bend over backwards to make you happy. Mason the owner of Powersports is responsible for my free track day at Thunderhill a few weeks ago. It was for shop personnel only and I jokingly ask how do I become an employ for a day. A few hours the phone rang and he said, How Would You Like To Be An Employee For A Day, very cool. Powersports will continue to get my business as long as they keep treating me the way they have in the past.

Gary

[Buzz]

Gary,

Thanks for the post. Small world, isn't it? Unfortunately, the experience you mention still seems to to be the norm for this shop, no help whatsoever. Not even an offer to help. This is the closest shop to me as well. Today, I was driving by the shop while working and, as it usually seems to be, not one customer in the store.

On the flipside, that was some incredible customer service he has had with Powersports. I am not planning to purchase another motorcycle for a while, but if the service continues as he has described and I've seen so far, it won't be a very difficult decision on where I will buy next or recommend to others.

Thank your friend as well for the information.

[CBR-RR-XX-CESS]

Gary,

I'm Jeff,Gary lives in Salinas, just did not want to confuse anyone here

[Rider99XX]

My XXs ground wires on the frame just behind the tank were not making good contact. Everything looked nice and clean, no corrosion, but wasn't making good contact. The bike was only a week old and the battery was going down pretty fast and the fuel gauges were fluctuating like O.J. Simpson's heart during his trial.

I called my dealer, Honda Of Laurel, Laurel Mississippi (GREAT DEALER) they told me just what to do. Remove the bolt holding the ground wires and scrape the area where the wires contact the frame, clean the wire terminals and bolt everything back down tight. Presto, it worked like a charm.

Not sure if it will help your situation but it is something simple and quick to try. There is another grounding point up in the nose of the bike, that is another place to look.

Hope it helps

[Grey_XX]

My XXs ground wires on the frame just behind the tank were not making good contact. Everything looked nice and clean, no corrosion, but wasn't making good contact. The bike was only a week old and the battery was going down pretty fast and the fuel gauges were fluctuating like O.J. Simpson's heart during his trial.

I called my dealer, Honda Of Laurel, Laurel Mississippi (GREAT DEALER) they told me just what to do. Remove the bolt holding the ground wires and scrape the area where the wires contact the frame, clean the wire terminals and bolt everything back down tight. Presto, it worked like a charm.

Not sure if it will help your situation but it is something simple and quick to try. There is another grounding point up in the nose of the bike, that is another place to look.

Hope it helps

I had the same thing 30kmiles ago (temp gauge looked like an RPM indicator).

Hugo

[Rider99XX]

Mine too. The service dept. at my dealershhip told me they had a service bulletin about the ground wires.

[Buzz]

Haven't thought about the grounding wires. No problems with the digital gauges fluctuating (not sure if either of yours are digital as well or if it would even make a difference), but I will check those areas out before taking it in for service. Thanks for the suggestions.

[Grey_XX]

Haven't thought about the grounding wires. No problems with the digital gauges fluctuating (not sure if either of yours are digital as well or if it would even make a difference), but I will check those areas out before taking it in for service. Thanks for the suggestions.

Regardless of whether the gauges are digital or not, there's a fluctuation when the grounding is (un :grin: )screwed. To test that, rev (just a snap of the throttle) the bike to 4k, it'll indicate a 10-20 change in temperature.

Hugo

[Buzz]

Just talked with Monterey Powersports regarding the battery/charging problem. They did a full diagnostic on the system. The service manager stated that one problem was the idle too low (900 rpm) which was drawing 3 amps from the battery. I did turn down the idle since it was running 1400 rpm warm, but used the tachometer to gauge engine rpm. Perhaps there is some calibration error on the tach?

After the service department brought up the rpm to 1100, he said it was charging the battery at 3 amps. Also, when the bike was turned off, any remaining draw (i.e. clock) is 1/10 amp.

A change that I was not aware of is the battery used from '01 to '03 models is different from previous years. He stated that the newer style battery used circuitry to limit the discharge rate as well as be designed to be a more maintenance-free design as the older style needs to be prepped first (fluids added, initial charge). He did not like the newer battery as much as the old one because of this.

One other possibility would be with the age of the battery itself. Although I purchased the bike in December '03, it was manufactured in October, '02. I would assume the battery was installed in the bike at that time. The dealer stated that they recieved the bike about a month before I purchased it. This would mean that the battery was sitting in the bike for a year and be almost two years old by now.

Because of this, I am purchasing the older style battery (about $70, which is $100 cheaper than the newer style counterpart) and see if this solves the problem. Will post all feedback, good or bad, on this thread.

[Buzz]

Good news, problem seems to be solved with the new battery. I can leave the bike sit for two days and the starter still turns faster than it ever did with the old battery. I'm still somewhat apprehensive when starting the bike out of habit, though (got used to a crapshoot every time I went to turn on the bike). Will have to work on that.

One correction: the bike draws 1/100 amp when turned off, not 1/10 amp.

Hugo, thanks for the Honda Customer Service number and info from their FAQs. I did file a complaint on Cycle Stop as well as commend Monterey Peninsula Powersports for their excellent service.

[Grey_XX]

BTW, quick update on my bike.

R/R replaced, the problem still occurred. It turns out the stator has gone on partial strike.

Stator was ordered, but a different (than ordered) stator showed up. It's getting close to a month with that problem now. I have a very bad case of bike withdrawal, it's not even funny.

Hugo

[Buzz]

Hugo, Thanks for the update. I feel for you. I went without my Bird for a week and my wife knew I was going through withdrawals. Funny, motorcycles are kind like an addiction.

Bummer on the wrong part coming in. Sounds like Murphy's Law of stators. What dealership did you go to, Milpitas? How was it determined that the problem was the stator? Haven't heard of a stator being replaced on a bird before.