tweety Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Alright, as mentioned in a previous post, my bike has some starting problems, so I spent a few minutes with the manual in one hand, and the removed seat cowl in the other. I only had time to narrow it down, not find the problem source yet. According to the electrical troubleshooting chart on page 16-3 of the '99 manual, my bike failed the battery current leakage test, with reg/rec disconnected. The next step is: "Shorted wire harness" or "Faulty ignition switch." In response, the manual states: "Locate the short by disconnecting connections one by one and measuring the current." Any advice on where to start? Should I just disconnect every wiring harness I can see and test leakage each time? Perhaps there are a few major ones I can try first, or likely suspects to try first? Can I test by removing fuses from the fuse box? looking at this picture linked below, it could take a while.... http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/200_0351/wir...rness_01_03.jpg PS: it also failed the charging voltage test... on a battery that measures 12.85V with nothing on, it measures 12.2V engine idling, and 12.45V @ 5000 rpm. (I read in another post it should be in the high 14's) Can I safely assume this is a side effect of the short above, as the test is mentioned further down the troubleshooting chart? thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 What exactly is the problem, and what are the symptoms? Nevermind the manual for right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweety Posted April 7, 2004 Author Share Posted April 7, 2004 from here: http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8832 crap, same thing happened to me, and i have NO aftermarket electricity draining goodies.1) battery died, voltage ~11. 2) "tended" battery up to 12.9v, tried again, died again. 3) new stock yuasa battery (the old yuasa was 4 years old anyway), tended, tried again, died again. this time with speedo & tachometer crazyness. it was pretty predictable- get moving down the road, they would work, touch the brake, they would fall to zero. (i assume from the drain of the brake light) 4) ... i'm at work, typing this forum message. and to continue my problem history: 5) bump started bike to get it home. (it was really hard that time...) 6) pulled out manual and started testing what it said on the charging diagnostic page: - failed charging voltage test - failed leak test - failed leak test when r/r disconnected - passed stator wire tests Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Have you tried a new R/R? Sounds to me like it's just not charging. Runs fine till the battery dies, is that correct? Or do you have this problem with the battery freshly charged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweety Posted April 8, 2004 Author Share Posted April 8, 2004 Yes, it runs fine until the battery dies. I haven't tried a new r/r yet, as trying one will cost me at least ~$100 from ronayers. (Unless any helpful SD bird riders care to lend me they're r/r for a day?? :wink: ) You think for now I should just ignore that it fails the current leak test even with r/r disconnected? (max 0.2 mA, I measured 0.572 mA) That's why I was wondering if a current leak would cause the 5000rpm charging test to fail at only 12.4 V... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD Marc Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Let me know if you seriously want to give my r/r a try. I live fairly close to you, I have a new place with a garage that overlooks Regents and the 52. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 What are you testing it with? The ECU will need to power up, then takes almost no draw after that. You may be measuring the power it is trying to take from the battery, not it's constant draw. If you're only dealing with less than an amp, you can use an inline ammeter to measure. Hook it up, then watch the draw. Don't be surprised if it drops over a few minutes. Even better, hook it up, then disconnect the battery. Make sure you're using a digital ammeter, and that it's zeroed, too. I'd bet on your R/R being bad. .5A will not kill a battery. Maybe after a couple of days, or a week, but definitely not while riding. It's your charging system that is at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 What is your voltage idling, then reved up a couple hundred RPM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pace Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 You looking for a rectifier? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...&category=35594 -Pace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweety Posted April 8, 2004 Author Share Posted April 8, 2004 Mikey- "it also failed the charging voltage test... on a battery that measures 12.85V with nothing on, it measures 12.2V engine idling, and 12.45V @ 5000 rpm. (I read in another post it should be in the high 14's)" Northman- I'm using a digital multimeter. I'm sure it's fine, though it only cost $11... Actually here it is: http://168.avalonrise.com/ - I wished it had a resistance range lower than 200 ohms, so my stator test would be more accurate. I don't see any way to zero it out... It gives me a very consistent 0.572 mA leakage between negative battery terminal and ground cable. As per instructions under "Current Leakage Inspection" on page 16-7 in the '99 manual. My bike has yet to die while riding. the closest it came was instrument cluster being crazy, UFO style. Though I suppose your main point is that a small current leak shouldn't be the cause of failing the charging voltage test with 12.4V@5000rpm. Perhaps I'll ask Marc nicely for a swap to see if it's the R/R for sure... Marc- sounds like I should come by just to check out the view... :wink: You free anytime over the weekend? It would only take a few minutes, I would just do the charging voltage test with your R/R swapped on to make sure it's my R/R. Perhaps also compare a few test numbers on your bike. So you finally live with your bike now? pace- I actually have yet to buy on ebay, a little nervous about it. How would I know that one actually works? though I suppose the seller has a pretty good feedback rating... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash1alot Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 The short could actually be coming from a grounded "sensing" wire to the alternator, If that happens then the alternator thinks the battery is charged and doesnt put out any amps to recharge the battery, only enough to run the comp and other things but still cant sense load. To check where the draw is coming from hook your ammeter inline with the negative cable disconnected with positive lead on cable negative on battery and pull fuses (key off of course). If theres no change then it not in any of those harnesses, start disconnecting the r/r and then further down the lines. If you do find it when a connector is unplugged then search downstrem in that bundle for the cause. If that doesnt work look in the manual and start ohms checking wires (key off !!) Check each power wire at each end unplugged at there greatest length If all good check the power wires with the positive lead on the wire and the other to chassis ground. if you get a reading whala !! theres your problem. good luck wiring sucks but with one wire at a time its not that bad. And if ya have to just start unplugging every damn connector then so be it ive had to do it before. I dont beleive your alternator is bad because you did get a rise in voltage slightly which is a sign og life but it may not be regulating correctly. But, if you could borrow that r/r from somebody, id send ya mine but I think its acting up again and im getting ready to bring it out of storage here, getting liscence back soon I hope !!! But if ya cant find anyone to let ya borrow one ill let you use mine to check. Mine on my 97 has quit twice and the symptoms leading to death were ufo style gauges at idle or when brakes lit up gauges went nuts and random ignition cutoff which was like turning the key off then back on as fast as i could. And also I buy stuff via ebay all the time, if your careful at reading there description then usually the have a refund/defective policy if a ebay store or if the guy says it works in his description, then it has to, its contract law, if you get it and it doesnt work he must take the part back and ebay has ways to do that for you. Most of the time I just email and ask where it came from wrecked bike or otherwise, did it/ does it work that you know of.... Its actually a cool place to shop and do business.. yes I have been burned but not buy anyone selling bike parts !! Most people there are honest surprisingly, most stuff I get matches what the condition is they say its in or better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD Marc Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Dave - Sat morning should be workable, say around 10. Let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajjer9 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I would say its your regulator check out this site for some good info on swapping it out with one from a yammie...I did it about 4 months ago and it works fine http://www.vlc.com.au/~justin/about/bikes/...eg_replace.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR. WOMO Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 If it turns out to be the R/R, I would suggest NOT to replace it with the same Honda one that failed. Mine went bad after about 2-3 years and as was suggested on another site, I replaced it with a R/R from a Yamaha R1 - for the most part the bolt holes lined up perfectly, I was able to pull the spade connectors out of the harness on the bird and hooked 'em right up to the new Rec. Hondas DO run great, but the R/R on the Bird is shit! Good luck with the fix! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweety Posted April 9, 2004 Author Share Posted April 9, 2004 crash, thanks a lot for all that advice... i'll be sure to print it out before next tests. bajjer9 & mr. womo, my R/R looks more like the one on the ebay sale (the first picture below) than on that "use the R1 R/R" website. (the left R/R on bottom image) ... So it looks like OEM Honda R/R went under a major revision on newer XXs... I wonder if the R1 R/R is really that much better now. Anyway, I'll find out Sunday if my R/R is actually broken with the help of Marc. If so, I guess I'll have to decide & choose between 3 Reg/Rects: OEM Honda, Electrex, or R1.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR. WOMO Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 tweety, I believe you're correct, the newer R/R's on the Bird ARE, as far as I've heard less problematic than those older, feeble looking ones. (as they closely resemble the R1 ones with beefed up cooling vanes, etc.) You'd probably be fine to use the newer version should you choose to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweety Posted April 20, 2004 Author Share Posted April 20, 2004 Just to document a resolution to this problem- I checked with Marc and sure enough his R/R worked perfectly on my bike. I also checked his current leak and it was roughly the same as mine... .57 mA, which is out of spec. I bought the used regulator rectifier that Pace graciously linked to. ($45 instead of $100 brand new! .. thanks to my first ebay purchase!) And popped it in yesterday... worked like a charm. Took a week to get to my house, but I was still able to commute by leaving my battery tender at work and bringing my battery up beside my desk every day. So I guess that current leak I talked about above didn't matter too much. (I hope) but I'm still concerned that it didn't fit in spec. Anyway, battery is charging perfectly now. Thanks for all the help :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pace Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 ($45 instead of $100 brand new! .. thanks to my first ebay purchase!) Ask the seller to leave you feedback. It helps! -Pace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.