NoOne65 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I have had my '97 XX since 2003 and I know that the regulator is the weak link in the 'bird's design. I typically go through 1 per year on average. I have used stock Honda old and new design, R1 regulator, cheap ebay ones and electrosport.I have swapped out OEM stator with a new '99 one, a cheap ebay one and also an electrosport over the years but am still plagued by RR failures. anyone have any ideas why I might be so unlucky? could the flywheel cause any electrical anomolies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 (edited) Just spitballing here. Your 97 would have come with no FI, and the lower output stator. And stock, it should have consumed less power than my 01. Our OEM charging systems use a shunt regulator. Translation, the stator puts out max designed power all the time. The r/R rectifies the stator output, and " regulates" the unused output by shunting it to ground. I.e.: heating the r/R. The newer Mos-fet regulators are more robust, but still work the same way. Another current Postabout charging has linked to threads showing a newer style r/R that is in series with the stator output. This one basically disconnects the stator from the circuit when power is not required. No current flow, no heat, or electrical wear. I haven't quite gotten my head around how the series r/R is being installed, but I think that I will go that direction next . So my thought as to why? You are probably using the latest, higher components, on a model bike that uses the least power. So by design, the regulator part is working harder. Kinda backwards isn't it? Hopefully, Stan or Eric will post if I am full of it or not. Edited May 9, 2016 by redxxrdr Add link 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoOne65 Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 well as I mentioned I have used everything from low end stuff to high end stuff and everything in between over the years. its gotten to the point that when I am talking to my dad and mention battery issues he correctly assumes the RR! lol It is a pain not knowing why this one particular bike goes through so many charging issues tho... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I think you missed a key point in the last post- you're using a higher output stator designed for the demands of the FI equipped models. The voltage regulator's job is to dump extra voltage in the form of heat. You have more extra voltage than you would with the appropriate stator. More voltage, more heat, shorter regulator life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoOne65 Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 (edited) no I dont think I missed it but as I mentioned the '99 one was only one of several used.. if thats what you are referring to? I guess I may have not been too clear but that particular one was swapped out in '08, all of the rest were for '97...I am currently running on an OEM '97 I picked up used on ebay last year. My point was that no matter what stator or RR I used in the various different configurations I still end up with either a dear RR or a fried one. So I gather that the flywheel doesn't cause issues? Many have told me about the mosfet RR...I presume they are pretty standard nowadays? are there any that can be wired into an XX? Edited May 9, 2016 by NoOne65 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I think that the R1 r/R is mosfet. But, the mosfet one still doesn't address the load on the stator. Read the links that Krypt Keeper posted from the Trumpet forums. I can't provide real world experience on the series model yet. It seems that they see a lot more failures on bikes doing track days. Reason, lights are disabled, r/R has to work harder. Links, from those threads take you to vendors that sell mosfet and series regulators. Some even have kits to swap to other bike models. I also saw talk about some of the series regulators not holding up on high rpm track bikes. This, sort of makes sense. A unloaded alternator will easily drive to over 100 vac. I bet some rectifier diodes can't handle the higher voltages when the regulator reconnects. One of the R/R was showing 50 amp output. Thats a whole lot more than my 1960's VW ever had. I wish I could see a schematic of the series type. The vendors say that they need plenty of cooling. Strange, if it really disconnects the stator. Another thing. Isn't the r/R on the 97 mounted low under the tail on the riders left? It is mounted under the right vent in the tail on my 01. I know that the 01 style is physically bigger, but maybe there is better airflow in the new position too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoOne65 Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 Yes it is on the left just ahead of the vent hole, which is dumb to me, why now put it behind the vent hole!!Probably the best place to relocate it would be the nose just before the oil cooler...as for the mosfet kit for 200 bucks I just cant do that anytime soon. If I knew a late model mosfet unit that would wire up like the early R1 units worked on the carb birds I would do that conversion...and yes I know the money spent on failed RR's I could do the retro kit...but again 200 dollars at one time is tough for me to do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Sorry, I misunderstood earlier and though you were just burning through RR's, not RR's and stators. Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Yeah the $200 for a R/R made me do a double take as well. Hence why I just went with a MOSFET for my track bike. Would rather spend that extra on tires. Hehehe, Really surprised no one had came out with a lower voltage stator setup for track riders. Hmmmmm I might be on to something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Plus, For years I thought I was helping things by installing LED tail lights and 35 watt HID headlights. Its only been in the past couple of years that I have come to realize that I am making things worse . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 You are making them better by improving the ability to see and be seen for safety. But your stator and R/R hates you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 I would check over the wiring thoroughly, specifically all the main power and ground connections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoOne65 Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 11 minutes ago, superhawk996 said: I would check over the wiring thoroughly, specifically all the main power and ground connections. I have checked the power connections and all are tight and the ground is grounded to the starter and appears to be tight with no corrosion. the only bad connections were the RR itself and the main power wire on the starter relay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 On May 9, 2016 at 7:38 PM, NoOne65 said: So I gather that the flywheel doesn't cause issues? If it's not hitting the stator, which should leave obvious marks, the only thing I can imagine would be if the magnets are more powerful than they're supposed to be causing it to put out more power. No idea if that's at all possible. I recall you having a lot of problems with your bike recently, maybe you got a lemon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 1 minute ago, NoOne65 said: I have checked the power connections and all are tight and the ground is grounded to the starter and appears to be tight with no corrosion. the only bad connections were the RR itself and the main power wire on the starter relay Main fuse connections checked as well as battery terminals and the crimps on all those wires checked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc46 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Hi guys, I just put in the sh775 series regulator on my 01. I was able to mount it in the stock location(rh rear side). I did make an aluminum bracket to make it all work. I wanted to keep a plug and play capability with my stator, so I just cut off the wires on the stock r/r and spliced into the stator wires(with the proper connectors and heat shrink) and capped off the rest of the unused wires. The kit I used(from roadstercycle...highly recommended) grounds directly to the battery, so that's why I capped off the rest of the wires. Anyway the results are after a spirited run for an hour or so the r/r is only warm to the touch, where as the stock r/r would burn you. This totally makes sense as the r/r is having to deal with a lot less current from the stator. All in all very happy with this r/r and the added bonus should be much longer stator life as well. I should also mention that the rear cowl fits no problem with lots of clearance around the r/r. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 W T F ?!?!?!?!? Your tool strap appears to be in perfect condition. I think you're the first here to do the series reg., nice to have some evidence of it fitting well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhawk996 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 3 hours ago, superhawk996 said: Main fuse connections checked as well as battery terminals and the crimps on all those wires checked? Just read about your melted RR wires, this may have been the cause of the repeated failures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 6 hours ago, rc46 said: Hi guys, I just put in the sh775 series regulator on my 01. I was able to mount it in the stock location(rh rear side). I did make an aluminum bracket to make it all work. I wanted to keep a plug and play capability with my stator, so I just cut off the wires on the stock r/r and spliced into the stator wires(with the proper connectors and heat shrink) and capped off the rest of the unused wires. The kit I used(from roadstercycle...highly recommended) grounds directly to the battery, so that's why I capped off the rest of the wires. Anyway the results are after a spirited run for an hour or so the r/r is only warm to the touch, where as the stock r/r would burn you. This totally makes sense as the r/r is having to deal with a lot less current from the stator. All in all very happy with this r/r and the added bonus should be much longer stator life as well. I should also mention that the rear cowl fits no problem with lots of clearance around the r/r. Thank you for posting this. I just ordered two of the Trumpet harness that plug into the 775/847 series regulators. Shipping was more than the harness, so I figured I would get prepared for both bikes. I need a couple more paychecks before I can order the regulator. But both bikes are running correctly now. Some of the post on Trumpet sites also say that they feel a little more power. Have you noticed a change? Is the kit you used the one with that wires directly to the battery, with the auto reset circuit breaker in line? great idea to leave the OEM harness installed. I had not thought of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc46 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 My oem harness was in perfect condition(I live in a dry climate), so I thought why not use it.(and the kit from roadstercycle only has about 10inches on stator wire on the plugs, so I had to use the factory harness to try this out). Jack from roadstercycle makes a very high quality kit and will do custom lengths for the wires so you can keep the joints down to the minimum. I work in the electrical industry so just a few words about crimp vs solder joints. A lot of people believe that solder joints are better, and this is simply not true. It all comes down to the quality of connectors, tools used, and the skill of the person. With that said, I crimped my joints(supplied in the kit as well as solder joints if you prefer). What I used were non insulated heat shrink 14/16 awg crimp butt joints. Over that I used a longer heat shrink and over all the wires pvc sheathing to protect it all. As to the more power, I could not feel it, but it should make a little more as the stator is only working half as hard most of the time, and it takes hp to generate electricity. Yes to the question of wired directly to the battery, and a maxifuse was used as they are more robust. Hope all this helps you guys, I wanted to pay it forward for all the tips I have gotten of this site in the past years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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