poida Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Hi, hoping someone here might be able to shed some light on a problem im having with my 99 blackbird which now has me stumped.seems to be running rich in the number 4 cylinder.the old plugs i took out showed 1 2 and 3 running fine but number 4 plug was sooty.ive now replaced all the plugs,plug caps,air cleaner,ive run injector cleaner in the tank,checked the fuel pressure valve,checked the connections at the coils as well as the lead to the plug for any sign of damage.i can hear the injector clicking while the bike is running and it sounds the same as the others.the new plug at no 4 is now sooty while the other 3 are fine and i sometimes get some backfiring through the mufflers when i throttle off,(engine braking).the bike idles a bit rough but still pulls very strong when i open up the throttle.not sure what else to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoWhee Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Try swapping injectors, say #4 with #1 then see if your #1 gets sooty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Try a new battery first. You can always take it back. How many volts are you generating across the batt terminals when the bike is at about 3k rpm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoWhee Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Try a new battery first. You can always take it back. How many volts are you generating across the batt terminals when the bike is at about 3k rpm? Care to explain your solution? Coincidentaly I've been having a rich mixture issue, and ended up swapping out the ECU. I also had left my GPS on for a week and killed the battery, rather then wait to charge it up I just bought a new one. No more black smoke. Now I don't know if it was the battery change or the ecu swap, what would a new battery solve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I agree with JoWhee. Sounds like a bad injector or bad ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spicholy Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Are you running a Power Commander? If so, have you tried dismounting it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 the battery is strong and i have no other accessories attached to the system.there are no fault codes being displayed swapping no 4 injector with no 1 looks like the next option to try.is this a big job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Try a new battery first. You can always take it back. How many volts are you generating across the batt terminals when the bike is at about 3k rpm? Care to explain your solution? Coincidentaly I've been having a rich mixture issue, and ended up swapping out the ECU. I also had left my GPS on for a week and killed the battery, rather then wait to charge it up I just bought a new one. No more black smoke. Now I don't know if it was the battery change or the ecu swap, what would a new battery solve? Since trouble shooting is really just elimination of components, i always start with the easy stuff. A while back, i screwed up the wire loom fix by leaving the batter in as i was messing with wires. I blew my ECU. Got it replaced. And still had huge issues,,, hard starting. Barely idle. Running very rich. Computer throwing codes left and right... I replaced the battery. All was fine...instantly. I find that in most cases on hondas the RR or the battery is the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 fuel pressure regulator starting to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 im guessing the fuel pressure regulator is the bit on the end of the injector rail. i searched on here before posting up to see if anyone else at some stage had this problem and i noticed the fpr was getting mentioned so i pulled the vacuum hose and theres no fuel in it.although if it had gone wouldnt all cylinders be running rich due to excess fuel being forced through? getting around 14.63 volts at the battery at 3000rpm. checked the battery before starting the bike and it read 13.11 volts.from memory i thought it should be around 12.7 to 12.8 or is that acceptable? the bike starts no problem. not sure how the choke system works, but is it possible for the choke to be sticking on a bit on that one injector? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoWhee Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I was running rich, but across all four cylinders. At first I thought maybe the ecu had been yoshed or teka'ed, but apparently that is impossible with our bikes, and there was no power commander. I looked for one of those chips that can magically add 25 hp, no dice, I changed the FPR, the engine coolant temperature sensor, new plugs, lots of seafoam. I found an ecu for about $100 so I picked it up, and after about 200km no more black smoke, but coincidentally, I had left my gps on and killed the bikes battery so it got a new battery also. I never had a running problem with the bike, just lots of black smoke when getting on the throttle, and really sooty pipes. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Yeah the choke pulls some enrichment levers and tbey can stick. But the frp vacumn goes into the port between three and four and only pulls fuel when running.. Start it with it off and it should run some out. Becareful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 i took off the fuel pressure regulator vacuum hose and started the bike but no fuel came out.the choke levers all appear to be going in when warm.will try swapping the injector over with number one and see what happens as at least that way it should tell me if theres a problem with it or not.is there anything involved in swapping them out that i should be careful of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 yeah I have had a problem with stuck injectors and pulled them out and carb cleaner in the way fuel flows and blew backwards with compressed air and got the offending particle out. Some silicone spray was good enough to get the o rings to seat back in the port, just try to keep the carb cleaner off them cause they swell. If they do just give them time to dry out and shrink before you put them back in the port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 ive swapped over no 4 injector with no 2 injector and also swapped the ignition lead on 4 with no 2 but no 4 cyl is still running rich.any other ideas as to what could be causing it would be much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoWhee Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the thing that fixed my rich mixture was en ecu swap. But mine was rich across all four, but the bike is new to me, maybe it started with one cylinder. Things I checked were the battery, which was replaced for a different reason. Engine coolant sensor. I was wondering about the barometric sensor in the rear cowl, as it seems to be exposed, but I never got around to testing that, as I found my ecu on kijiji for $100. I had also checked out the iat sensor in the air box checked out ok. It seems strange to me that an ecu could go bad like this, I thought it would just make the bike stop working all together, but I can't argue with my results. I may crack open the old one and have a look at it I thought it would be just some computer circuits, and a programme in there, nothing that could change or wear out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 but no 4 cyl is still running rich. How did you confirm that, pulling the plug? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 How did you confirm that, pulling the plug?.....hi blackhawk,yeah it was by checking the plugs.no 4 is still sooty after a long ride and fuel consumtion is still fairly high,roughly 13.5 kilometres to the litre with riding sensibly.with the backfiring/popping in the exhaust when engine braking, ive checked for any leaks in the exhaust and replaced the muffler gaskets to rule them out(still backfiring and popping) but after a search online re backfiring/popping in the mufflers it was suggested to up the idle speed.ive done that and its stopped it for now.all i can think of now is maybe a valve is out of spec,although if that would cause a cyl to run rich i have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoWhee Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 You mentioned backfiring through the mufflers are you running slipons or stock? Some bikes require that you block off the PAIR valve to stop the backfiring when using atermarket exhausts. I guess I'm getting worse mileage than you, about 12km/l or ~250 per tankful, I've stopped worrying about it. I will be having the valves checked over the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 hi jowhee,it has standard mufflers on it and the engine is stock with no add ons and has around 145000 miles on the clock. ive owned it for about 11 years now and service it regularly.this is the first time ive had a problem with it where im stumped as to the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poida Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 Hi all,just thought i would post up an update.looks like the problem was the choke (enrichment) slide for number 4 cylinder.it looked like it was fully seating when the bike had warmed up but it seems it wasnt.gave it a good spray with carby/throttle body cleaner and its running much better and the plug is looking good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para045 Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Hi all,just thought i would post up an update.looks like the problem was the choke (enrichment) slide for number 4 cylinder.it looked like it was fully seating when the bike had warmed up but it seems it wasnt.gave it a good spray with carby/throttle body cleaner and its running much better and the plug is looking good. Glad to see you got it sorted mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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