TuffguyF4i Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 I just replaced the battery on my F4i. Before replacing, i checked the RR to make sure the voltage was correct across the terminals. It is, a healthy 14.5V. I'm positive the battery is getting recharged while riding. So......I charge the new battery... put it in... fire it up... all is good. Try to start the bike 4 days later. Battery is very dead. So for that day, i bump started the bike and rode normally all day (250miles). Using the beep test (continuity setting on my voltmeter) i got a beep between the + terminal and ground/frame on the bike? As far as i know, there should not be any connection between the + terminal and the ground of the bike. I also tried the same test on my XX, with no beep. So, i disconnected the + terminal and tested between the + hookup on the bike and the bikes ground. No beep. Which is normal. With the batt disconnected i tested across the batt terminals to see if there was an internal short in the battery. No beep. Again normal. I disconnected all accessories. No change. Left the bike for 2 days (annoyed) and came back. No beep? Started the bike up and turned it off. Now i'm getting continuity between the + terminal (while hooked up) and the frame/ground, just like before. Could it be something like a relay sticking? It has to be something hardwired in, because power to all accesories are killed with the ignition off. Thanks guys!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 My wife had a '99 F4 that had the same problem although it would take longer than a week to run down. I ran through the same tests you did with similar results. I chalked it up to some kind of gremlin unique to her bike until I saw this post - now I'm not so sure it was unique. It might be worth your while to see if Honda has a service bulletin on this. I never tried checking the voltage coming off of the back of the switch when in the off position. There shouldn't be any. Makes me wonder if it was the switch itelf that was bad, slowly draining the battery to ground. Keep us posted if you find the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesail Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 You need to find out if current is flowing, the continuity test of your meter is not intended to do this. If your meter has the ability to measure current, then insert it in series with the battery lead and measure the DC current. It should be a very small number, maybe 20ma at most. That means 0.02 Amperes. If your meter does not measure current, you can simply look carefully when you take the terminal on and off, and see if there is any noticeable spark. With any significant current draw you can see a small spark when in the dark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biometrix Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 You need to find out if current is flowing, the continuity test of your meter is not intended to do this. If your meter has the ability to measure current, then insert it in series with the battery lead and measure the DC current. It should be a very small number, maybe 20ma at most. That means 0.02 Amperes. If your meter does not measure current, you can simply look carefully when you take the terminal on and off, and see if there is any noticeable spark. With any significant current draw you can see a small spark when in the dark. Agreed with the above. I had a similar problem with my Valkyrie that was driving me nuts. Battery would be dead after sitting for 2-3 days even after I replaced it with a new one. Assuming your meter can show amps or milliamps, disconnect the negative cable of your battery. Connect the + lead of your meter to the disconnected - cable of your battery and connect the - lead of your meter to the - battery terminal. If your reading is more than 0.1-0.2 mA then start pulling fuses until you see the leakage drop and at least that will isolate the circuit. Start with circuits to which you have added any accessories. On my Valk it turned out to be the alarm system had suddenly decided to draw a ton of power when the bike was off. Electrical problems suck. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 don't forget the clock..small draw, but if your battery as a problem internally, shorted, take to a place to do a load test to dertemine . Yes Phillip a real load test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Might be a dumb question, but could the electrolyte/acid solution be bad...or a faulty mix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted April 29, 2009 Author Share Posted April 29, 2009 You need to find out if current is flowing, the continuity test of your meter is not intended to do this. If your meter has the ability to measure current, then insert it in series with the battery lead and measure the DC current. It should be a very small number, maybe 20ma at most. That means 0.02 Amperes. If your meter does not measure current, you can simply look carefully when you take the terminal on and off, and see if there is any noticeable spark. With any significant current draw you can see a small spark when in the dark. Agreed with the above. I had a similar problem with my Valkyrie that was driving me nuts. Battery would be dead after sitting for 2-3 days even after I replaced it with a new one. Assuming your meter can show amps or milliamps, disconnect the negative cable of your battery. Connect the + lead of your meter to the disconnected - cable of your battery and connect the - lead of your meter to the - battery terminal. If your reading is more than 0.1-0.2 mA then start pulling fuses until you see the leakage drop and at least that will isolate the circuit. Start with circuits to which you have added any accessories. On my Valk it turned out to be the alarm system had suddenly decided to draw a ton of power when the bike was off. Electrical problems suck. Good luck. Yup....my meter measures current... i will check that out...let me just try to simplify what you are saying to check current flow. Meter: + lead: attached to disconnected - cable - lead: attached to - battery terminal Got it. Bridge between the - cable and terminal to get the draw. Leave the + hooked up. It does take about a week to discharge the battery from what i am seeing. I have never had this problem before....it is probally a malfunction from an accessory or something that I did. I'm hoping its not though. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biometrix Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Yup....my meter measures current... i will check that out...let me just try to simplify what you are saying to check current flow. Meter: + lead: attached to disconnected - cable - lead: attached to - battery terminal Got it. Bridge between the - cable and terminal to get the draw. Leave the + hooked up. Correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted April 29, 2009 Author Share Posted April 29, 2009 Ok....i just took the reading. 2.18 ma - which I would assume is very low draw. I first did the same beep test as described to see if the condition still exists. It did not. I turned the ignition on, cycled the starter a few times, took the key out,, then the condition did exist (ie. beep test sounded). Then took my reading. I find it strange that this test is intermittent. My electronics engineer friend told me that AC motors (bike alternators) use the RR to convert to DC. However, on AC's you may get connectivity and a partial ground. I supposed my next step is just as stated by a previous poster, go back and pull fuses till you isolate the issue. It almost seems as though the issue has subsided. My battery reads a strong 13.15V, dispite not having been charged for 3 days. Of course with electrical stuff, it can rear its head at any time. I'll trouble shoot it tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrated Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Do yourself a favor and QUITE doing a "beep" test on circuits that have voltage on them....before you fry your meter. The "beep" sound is for circuit continuity.......as in whether a circuit is open or closed and/or the amount of resistance in the circuit. You've been given good advice on hooking up your meter in series with the battery cable to check for current flow when there shouldn't be any current flow. Take if from there and see where the current leakage is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biometrix Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Ok....i just took the reading. 2.18 ma - which I would assume is very low draw. If you are reading that accurately, 2.18 mA is actually quite high. The specs from both my VTX (no clock) and my Valkyrie (Clock and many other do-dads) per the service manuals say 0.1mA is the max that the bike should be drawing when shut off. Like I said, with the Valk when I had the problem, the alarm system was drawing about 3.11 mA when the bike was off and that was enough to draw the battery down below cranking voltage in about three days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrated Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 2 mA is not a lot of current. If you have a 10 amp/hour battery that would equate to 10,000mA/hour. So if you are leaking 2mA it would take you approx. 5000 hours to completely draw the battery down. Once the voltage level started to drop, the current draw would also slowly decrease. Bottom line is this.......... 2mA would take forever to run a motorcycle battery down 5000 hours = over 200 days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biometrix Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 2 mA is not a lot of current. If you have a 10 amp/hour battery that would equate to 10,000mA/hour. So if you are leaking 2mA it would take you approx. 5000 hours to completely draw the battery down. Once the voltage level started to drop, the current draw would also slowly decrease. Bottom line is this.......... 2mA would take forever to run a motorcycle battery down 5000 hours = over 200 days Then I am confused as to why the Honda specs would say that anything above 0.1 mA is too much? 2.18 mA is more than 0.1 mA by a factor of over 20 isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beondwacko Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 2 mA is not a lot of current. If you have a 10 amp/hour battery that would equate to 10,000mA/hour. So if you are leaking 2mA it would take you approx. 5000 hours to completely draw the battery down. Once the voltage level started to drop, the current draw would also slowly decrease. Bottom line is this.......... 2mA would take forever to run a motorcycle battery down 5000 hours = over 200 days I always knew I was a fan of Vern !!! He's 100% correct on this one too. 2 ma is a very small draw. It's time to isolate circuits and use the meter in series with either the hot or ground wire with the meter set on amperage as mentioned. Not continuity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 did you ever load test the battery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrated Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Thanks Adam.......I guess being an Electrician for almost 30 years gives you a little insight on some of the issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted May 5, 2009 Author Share Posted May 5, 2009 I believe i solved the problem gents. It was my custom accessory LED driving/visiblity lights that where causing the short. I must have a bit of voltage leaking from them. I found the problem by disconnecting my accessories from my fuse bus at the back of the bike. I found out that the battery was holding its charge w/out issue. It stabilized at 13.1x volts for days w/o dropping. So, i hooked the fuse bus back up, and slowly removed accessories. I easily identified which accessory was bleeding voltage by removing the + on each one and continously monitoring voltage. It would drop from 13.1x to 12.9x over just a few seconds, by reconnecting the accessory. I had the driving lights hook up with the + always on and the - hooked up at the switch. I reversed the two so that the voltage was not always driving to the lights. Solution was to switch the two. Ground out the lights, switch the +. Thanks for all the advice guys. I think the problem is solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Same problem here. Dealer is picking up the bike tomorrow. I'm tired of messing with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biometrix Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I believe i solved the problem gents. It was my custom accessory LED driving/visiblity lights that where causing the short. I must have a bit of voltage leaking from them. I found the problem by disconnecting my accessories from my fuse bus at the back of the bike. I found out that the battery was holding its charge w/out issue. It stabilized at 13.1x volts for days w/o dropping. So, i hooked the fuse bus back up, and slowly removed accessories. I easily identified which accessory was bleeding voltage by removing the + on each one and continously monitoring voltage. It would drop from 13.1x to 12.9x over just a few seconds, by reconnecting the accessory. I had the driving lights hook up with the + always on and the - hooked up at the switch. I reversed the two so that the voltage was not always driving to the lights. Solution was to switch the two. Ground out the lights, switch the +. Thanks for all the advice guys. I think the problem is solved. Glad you got it fixed. I wonder if that 2.18 mA reading went down any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 This thread reminds me of Frankenstein....except the monster nearly killed its creator . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 Glad you got it fixed. I wonder if that 2.18 mA reading went down any? I'll check it out! I noticed the voltage boost back up a few tenths right away. I still like the custom LED driving lights....they're not going anywhere and they took alot of work. I have a bit of a 'thing' for visiblity lighting....in case you can't tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 I disconnected all accessories. No change. I believe i solved the problem gents. It was my custom accessory LED driving/visiblity lights that where causing the short. These two statements contradict each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 No change in connectivity. I was not monitoring voltage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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