blackbd1 Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 question: i have a 2000 xx with 16.5k and i am having a charging problem. i replaced my battery 1.5 years ago and it still tests good. when i put a DVM across my battery post i get 12.9V, i start the bike and it drops to 12.2 and just sits there regardless of throttle position. i suspect it is the R/R as a check, i unplugged the 3 yellow wired harness from the R/R and started the bike again, i put my DVM on VAC and measured the raw output from the stator coils. is there anyone who has a 2000 xx that is charging fine with OEM equipment and who knows what these output voltages should be?? i checked them @ idle, @ 2500 and @ 5000 rpm. between any two of coils gave me consistant values with the other pairs, however, i would like to know if they are consistantly good or bad. your thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Sounds like the RR to me. Your running voltage w/o headlights on should be around 14V. With my high beams on and rpms' around 3k, I get 13.5V. The RR is almost always the culprit in these cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff James Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 +1 for reg/rec. Whilst on the subject of electrics though, a mate who rides a Blackbird in the UK had his stator fail last week. Fortunately, he had an LED voltmeter fitted which showed that his voltages had gone out of range and he was able to get home. I wasn't so lucky when mine failed a couple of years back, getting stuck in the middle of nowhere. I've attached an article he wrote on his voltmeter as it sounds like a good bit of insurance. Cheers, Geoff Kuryakyn_Voltmeter_on_Blackbird.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Follow the Charging trouble shooting guide from the usefull threads sections before buying the R/R. It gives approximate stator outputs too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbd1 Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 okay, my voltages are about where they need to be, however, the resistance values between the stator wires is real low between any two pair of wires was 0.30 ohms and NOT 3.0 to 6.0 ohms suggestions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesail Posted April 28, 2009 Share Posted April 28, 2009 okay, my voltages are about where they need to be, however, the resistance values between the stator wires is real low between any two pair of wires was 0.30 ohms and NOT 3.0 to 6.0 ohms suggestions The resistance is too low to get an accurate measurement, whoever said 3 to 6 does not understand this. It is most likely that the ohmmeter leads have far greater resistance than the stator, and it is not easy for the meter to measure the very small voltage that results from such a low ohmic measurement. Just because the meter scale reads to zero does not mean it is accurate at that reading. The stator is wound with what appears to be 16 gauge wire, the resistance is about 4 ohms per 1000 ft of wire for this gauge. There is NOT anywhere near 1000 ft of wire per winding. In any practical sense the coil resistance is not measurable, unless you have a four terminal meter and know how to make a bridge measurement. Here is my suggestion: The only resistance measurement I would suggest is from the coil leads to ground, there should be no continuity there.What is reasonable is measuring the operating AC voltage, if this is the same for all three sections the stator is probably fine. As an easy check, I have found that the coil will brightly illuminate a brake light bulb that is placed across any terminal pair from the stator at idle. Two bad stators have been quickly diagnosed by this test in my personal experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbd1 Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 The resistance is too low to get an accurate measurement, whoever said 3 to 6 does not understand this. #### the .pdf document above states that if the resistance is either higher or lower than 3 to 6 ohms, then the stator is bad. so, this document must be a little too general It is most likely that the ohmmeter leads have far greater resistance than the stator, and it is not easy for the meter to measure the very small voltage that results from such a low ohmic measurement. Just because the meter scale reads to zero does not mean it is accurate at that reading. #### i am using a $200 digital multimeter that i use in my research at where i work (SIUE), this meter is easily capable of measuring resistance values less than 1 ohm with good certainty The stator is wound with what appears to be 16 gauge wire, the resistance is about 4 ohms per 1000 ft of wire for this gauge. There is NOT anywhere near 1000 ft of wire per winding. In any practical sense the coil resistance is not measurable, unless you have a four terminal meter and know how to make a bridge measurement. #### i just got off the phone with the local Honda dealer, the service guy pulled the tech manual, he said that the 2000 XX should have between 0.1 and 1.0 ohms across any two pair of coil wires thanks for responding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikesail Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 The resistance is too low to get an accurate measurement, whoever said 3 to 6 does not understand this. #### the .pdf document above states that if the resistance is either higher or lower than 3 to 6 ohms, then the stator is bad. so, this document must be a little too general It is most likely that the ohmmeter leads have far greater resistance than the stator, and it is not easy for the meter to measure the very small voltage that results from such a low ohmic measurement. Just because the meter scale reads to zero does not mean it is accurate at that reading. #### i am using a $200 digital multimeter that i use in my research at where i work (SIUE), this meter is easily capable of measuring resistance values less than 1 ohm with good certainty The stator is wound with what appears to be 16 gauge wire, the resistance is about 4 ohms per 1000 ft of wire for this gauge. There is NOT anywhere near 1000 ft of wire per winding. In any practical sense the coil resistance is not measurable, unless you have a four terminal meter and know how to make a bridge measurement. #### i just got off the phone with the local Honda dealer, the service guy pulled the tech manual, he said that the 2000 XX should have between 0.1 and 1.0 ohms across any two pair of coil wires thanks for responding A spec with a 10 to 1 range is not much of a spec. I think this illustrates the reality of the low resistance measurement. Honda put that range in because of the difficulties mentioned. While a Lab DVM will do a good job below an ohm, your garden variety home meter won't. I assumed you did not have such resources. However, regardless of the meter, if you are not careful it is easy to have your connections add several tenths of an ohm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobicus Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 How to test the stator: http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=53461 Jumping the bike with a car wouldn't affect the stator. Might affect the regulator rectifier, but that would surprise me, also. This is probalby the easiest, most reliable test: 1) The stator will have 3 wires coming out of it. Usually they're Yellow. Locate where they connect to the Regulator/Rectifier, and disconnect it. 2) Start the bike. 3) Take an electrical meter, set it to AC Volts. Measure voltage between any 2 of the wires. You should get 15+ volts across them at idle, and when you rev up the bike, it should quickly climb to anywhere from 40 to 80 volts. 4) Check all possible combinations. If you don't get voltage, or get nearly none, the stator is bad. Every other test you can do (continunity to ground, resistance between the pins, etc) won't answer the question: Am I getting output from the stator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sondance Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Follow the Charging trouble shooting guide from the usefull threads sections before buying the R/R. It gives approximate stator outputs too. How to test the stator: http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=53461 Jumping the bike with a car wouldn't affect the stator. Might affect the regulator rectifier, but that would surprise me, also. This is probalby the easiest, most reliable test: 1) The stator will have 3 wires coming out of it. Usually they're Yellow. Locate where they connect to the Regulator/Rectifier, and disconnect it. 2) Start the bike. 3) Take an electrical meter, set it to AC Volts. Measure voltage between any 2 of the wires. You should get 15+ volts across them at idle, and when you rev up the bike, it should quickly climb to anywhere from 40 to 80 volts. 4) Check all possible combinations. If you don't get voltage, or get nearly none, the stator is bad. Every other test you can do (continunity to ground, resistance between the pins, etc) won't answer the question: Am I getting output from the stator? 2000 Bird here, 44K miles. I ran the Electrosport trouble shooting guide that Craig linked to above about a year ago when the battery died on mine. I initially went through and cleaned all electrical contacts with a high grade electrical cleaner as well as sealed them with a high grade electrical sealer and dielectric grease. If I recall correctly, I had bogus/inaccurate Ohm readings off the stator similar to what you're reporting on that portion of the test. The other 2 portions of the Electrosport test for the stator (as Hobi has mentioned) checked out fine for output. The R/R tests checked out fine as well. The only faulty reading with that whole test I got that was not within their spec was the black wire test (first test on page . This is a common problem with VFR's as well, the black wire (12V input wire to the R/R) circuit runs through all kinds of connections (ignition switch/fuse box, etc) that hamper the reading causing the R/R to get faulty readings and usually will increase output to the battery as it thinks the battery voltage is too low. This isn't too good for either the R/R, the battery, or any of the electrical connections along the way... I installed a fresh/new battery and monitored my on board Datel Voltmeter while riding. I noticed that my Volt output gradually increased over time and fluctuated fairly high... 14.9 - 15.1 at revs... similar to the VFR condition. After receiving a new R/R and running it through the initial tests, I installed it in place of my original R/R to test, and I got similar readings as with the old R/R. The VFR fix is to remove the black wire out of the R/R connector and run a separate black wire directly to the + terminal on my aux fusebox, (most guys will go directly to the + terminal on the battery). I also put the old R/R back on. As a result, my Volt output is now a rock solid and steady 14.3 volts at revs. 12.9 at initial key turn, 12.3/4 pushing the starter button, 12.9-13.2 at idle, depending on what all I've got running. Has been that way for awhile now with no issues and I'm still on the original OEM stator and R/R... knock on wood. FWIW, my old 02 VFR electrics responded the same way... YMMV Since I drive the Bird almost daily, I will connect it to a battery tender every so often overnite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbd1 Posted April 29, 2009 Author Share Posted April 29, 2009 so i installed the new R/R and hit the key battery voltage before start: 13.0V after start at idle: 14.8V is this too high?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 so i installed the new R/R and hit the key battery voltage before start: 13.0V after start at idle: 14.8V is this too high?? Is that at fast idle, i.e. idle when the engine is cold? It could be OK, although I've never seen mine that high at fast idle, only when running above 3000 RPM. At normal idle, mine is around 12.5V - 12.8V; at fast idle, maybe 13.5V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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