brent Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Looking for a mechanic that wants a winter project, my bike locked up and now wont start, cant even turn the engine with a breaker bar. Im pretty sure its a seized bearing. the bike is at my friends house in MA (Springfield) I live in NY I can transport the bike anywhere in between :icon_wall: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmacza Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Looking for a mechanic that wants a winter project, my bike locked up and now wont start, cant even turn the engine with a breaker bar. Im pretty sure its a seized bearing. the bike is at my friends house in MA (Springfield) I live in NY I can transport the bike anywhere in between :icon_wall: You sure its not hydraulic lock? If one of the cylinders fills with fuel you'll have the same symptom. Have you pulled the plugs and tried again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 Looking for a mechanic that wants a winter project, my bike locked up and now wont start, cant even turn the engine with a breaker bar. Im pretty sure its a seized bearing. the bike is at my friends house in MA (Springfield) I live in NY I can transport the bike anywhere in between :icon_wall: You sure its not hydraulic lock? If one of the cylinders fills with fuel you'll have the same symptom. Have you pulled the plugs and tried again? No, It locked up when i was on the highway. starting hearing a loud squeek noise followed by the back tire locking up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 No, It locked up when i was on the highway. starting hearing a loud squeek noise followed by the back tire locking up. That sounds like a fun day! Did the turbo cause this? I just hope you determined the root problem before rebuilding and then having the same issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 No, It locked up when i was on the highway. starting hearing a loud squeek noise followed by the back tire locking up. That sounds like a fun day! Did the turbo cause this? I just hope you determined the root problem before rebuilding and then having the same issue. No this wasn't from the turbo, the problem stemmed from when i had the transmission done..the bird has oil feed tubes that spray on the bearings if they are not correctly placed you seize a bearing (this is what im told) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 not if it is stock bearing lubrication, would have to be somethng that was added, and I will go on record never heard of that being done. Would be unnessary. Cuppla questions Did you pull the clutch. Will it shift. Do you have oil. What does it look like, the oil. does your turbo still turn. #3 rod bearing is the first to go of course I may be misunderstanding you. as I don't remember the trans bearings getting any pressure feed just splash. But, I can go and look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 not if it is stock bearing lubrication, would have to be somethng that was added, and I will go on record never heard of that being done. Would be unnessary. Cuppla questions Did you pull the clutch. Will it shift. Do you have oil. What does it look like, the oil. does your turbo still turn. #3 rod bearing is the first to go of course I may be misunderstanding you. as I don't remember the trans bearings getting any pressure feed just splash. But, I can go and look. Will Shift Has Oil didnt check it yet turbo is fine (just rebuilt) the guy that built the motor told me that if the feed is not in the right postion this is what happens and I had a guy do the trans that I later found out had no clue what he was doing I wanted the bike 100% to sell it in the spring :icon_wall: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 with the clutch in the trans shifts and the rear tire turns...right? I am thinking something else..So you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 with the clutch in the trans shifts and the rear tire turns...right? I am thinking something else..So you know. The engine wont turn even with a breaker bar... :icon_think: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I get that, but your talking about the trans. With the clutch in, and the trans turns and shifts without turning the motor. It ain't the trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 I get that, but your talking about the trans. With the clutch in, and the trans turns and shifts without turning the motor. It ain't the trans. Ill give it a shot tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 After rereading, I may have concluded you thought it was the trans bearings, maybe not. The ability to kill the # 3 rod bearing on the crankshaft, is moments without proper oil pressure. Maybe two or three seconds tops. NO more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 After rereading, I may have concluded you thought it was the trans bearings, maybe not. The ability to kill the # 3 rod bearing on the crankshaft, is moments without proper oil pressure. Maybe two or three seconds tops. NO more. thats probably what happened, hopefully my crank isnt chewed up...I need to find someone to tear into this bike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I had two engines loose bearings starve for oil. killed the crank and rod both times. uncovered the oil pump pickup both times. 6 qts of oil in the motor. Elton Fish type of oil pan and relief valve. 100 lbs of oil pressure. Clutch in and on the brakes and the oil would all run to the front of the motor when I hit the brakes, and would suck air in the pump. I had to add a baffle between the pan and the cases to stop that. As well as a Cannon oil accumulator in the main oil galley. Both times motor started knocking and never locked up. No squeek. Crank need to go to Elton, and do you know if your still runnung stock rods? Both are done. I had to maintain no more than .0005" clearance..much tighter than stock. and the 100 lbs oil pressure. And I ain't turboed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 I had two engines loose bearings starve for oil. killed the crank and rod both times. uncovered the oil pump pickup both times. 6 qts of oil in the motor. Elton Fish type of oil pan and relief valve. 100 lbs of oil pressure. Clutch in and on the brakes and the oil would all run to the front of the motor when I hit the brakes, and would suck air in the pump. I had to add a baffle between the pan and the cases to stop that. As well as a Cannon oil accumulator in the main oil galley. Both times motor started knocking and never locked up. No squeek. Crank need to go to Elton, and do you know if your still runnung stock rods? Both are done. I had to maintain no more than .0005" clearance..much tighter than stock. and the 100 lbs oil pressure. And I ain't turboed. Carillo rods, falcon crank.. dont know about the oil setup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I had two engines loose bearings starve for oil. killed the crank and rod both times. uncovered the oil pump pickup both times. 6 qts of oil in the motor. Elton Fish type of oil pan and relief valve. 100 lbs of oil pressure. Clutch in and on the brakes and the oil would all run to the front of the motor when I hit the brakes, and would suck air in the pump. I had to add a baffle between the pan and the cases to stop that. As well as a Cannon oil accumulator in the main oil galley. Both times motor started knocking and never locked up. No squeek. Crank need to go to Elton, and do you know if your still runnung stock rods? Both are done. I had to maintain no more than .0005" clearance..much tighter than stock. and the 100 lbs oil pressure. And I ain't turboed. Carillo rods, falcon crank.. dont know about the oil setup Same as me. How many hours on the motor. What was you doing. Well different than you normally do. Waht I am saying if it was good for a while and nothing was any different in the way she was being rode,,just don't add up. I am wondering what else it could be. Running down the highway, steady state, 4k rpm 70 mph what else could do what you have. I would think it would be pretty hard to lock up a bearing without breaking the rod and holing the case. And you would have to loose oil pressure. Now had you been making some hard runs just before and hurt a bearing and not heard the knock. Shit I stacked the second one and it still ran. I am thinking piston.. I don't think you could fill the cylinder with gas at speed even if the injector took a shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 I had two engines loose bearings starve for oil. killed the crank and rod both times. uncovered the oil pump pickup both times. 6 qts of oil in the motor. Elton Fish type of oil pan and relief valve. 100 lbs of oil pressure. Clutch in and on the brakes and the oil would all run to the front of the motor when I hit the brakes, and would suck air in the pump. I had to add a baffle between the pan and the cases to stop that. As well as a Cannon oil accumulator in the main oil galley. Both times motor started knocking and never locked up. No squeek. Crank need to go to Elton, and do you know if your still runnung stock rods? Both are done. I had to maintain no more than .0005" clearance..much tighter than stock. and the 100 lbs oil pressure. And I ain't turboed. Carillo rods, falcon crank.. dont know about the oil setup Same as me. How many hours on the motor. What was you doing. Well different than you normally do. Waht I am saying if it was good for a while and nothing was any different in the way she was being rode,,just don't add up. I am wondering what else it could be. Running down the highway, steady state, 4k rpm 70 mph what else could do what you have. I would think it would be pretty hard to lock up a bearing without breaking the rod and holing the case. And you would have to loose oil pressure. Now had you been making some hard runs just before and hurt a bearing and not heard the knock. Shit I stacked the second one and it still ran. I am thinking piston.. I don't think you could fill the cylinder with gas at speed even if the injector took a shit. I heard the noise a day before a faint squeek, took it home checked the oil everything seemed fine. i headed upstate to take it to my friends house to have him check out what could be causing that squeek. I rode up 55-65mph steady speed just incase something went wrong. the bike started to squeek but this time it jerked on me and i started losing power, as i was on the exit ramp it locked up again so i just shut the bike and coasted to the service rode. towed it to my friends house started it up in neutral squeeked again then locked up after that wont even crank forgot to add its carb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Not to fuck up this post but Stan, how did braking cause your engine to lose oil pressure when it's all but unheard of on a stock Bird? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 i I was working on the trans,,,I would not pull the caps off the rods. Yes the bearings have a grove that has to be in the right place to oil corectly. But don't think it would last 10 min wrong. Idling. Think it goes on the cap side. Non loaded. Wish I was closer. Hell ship it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Not to fuck up this post but Stan, how did braking cause your engine to lose oil pressure when it's all but unheard of on a stock Bird? With the flat pan, with no sump, like Kent Stotz runs, from Elton Fish Racing, nobody had seen it. Nobody expected it. But, after the first one, on the second rebuild I was watching when I hit the brakes and the oil light came on. And the bearing knocked. Before I came to a stop. The third motor I was pretty sure it was something the quad does the bike don't and figured a windage tray would at least help to keep the pickup covered, but added the Cannon for insurance. 15,000 miles later no more problems. Yeah, pretty sure. But, I would not say my pan is stock. 2 1/2 inches cut off is all the sump. Elton is the one that required the 6 qts of oil also. And yes that is almost enough to run out the fill plug. and that is what Kent runs. And the parasitic drag of everything being under oil is not a problem. Yeah, I had a problem with it too, but, they have the dyno proof. 4500 dollars in parts sure And yeah, I have no clue what it is that is that different between the bike and quad stopping. And I have seen a bird do a stoppie,,,Max right. I think mine will stop much harder is all. Wanna see who can stop the fastest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 4500 dollars in parts sure And yeah, I have no clue what it is that is that different between the bike and quad stopping. And I have seen a bird do a stoppie,,,Max right. I think mine will stop much harder is all. Wanna see who can stop the fastest? A fool's bet for sure, Stan. :icon_snooty: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Sorry Jon, should have spelt it MaXX. I have seen a picture of him doing a stoppie on a XX. Tried to find it but no luck. Three Falcon cranks. 1 1/2 carrilo rod sets, three sets bearings, three sets gaskets, three sets rings. Adds up pretty quick. The Pan is only 1 inch thick, and flat. I only had about 30 min. on each motor. First ride each time. A lot of running without riding though. I am starting to get depressed... again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CxBXR Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 What does a new falicon crank go for ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 $1,000 Rods 250 each Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brent Posted October 15, 2008 Author Share Posted October 15, 2008 i I was working on the trans,,,I would not pull the caps off the rods. Yes the bearings have a grove that has to be in the right place to oil corectly. But don't think it would last 10 min wrong. Idling. Think it goes on the cap side. Non loaded. Wish I was closer. Hell ship it. Ill Ship the engine, give me a call 914-433-5800 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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