chatvmax Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 One piece of info not given in the manual would be VERY helpful to verify all.. Does anyone know what the length of a stock spring spacer is for the 99 - 2002 models,, it must be different than the 97-98 models as the part number changes on the site where the oem fish and #'s are listed..? the picture of the one the board member posted is off a 97 - 98 modle PS: thanks MUCH mrbadexxample for all ur help and advice thus far,, i dont think i could have made anything of it without your help :-) I am getting ready to service my front forks on my 1999 cbr xx 1100,,, I have no drain plug on this model so i have a few questions... 1] guessing easiest way is to remove fork and hang upside down for a couple days while pumping them once in a while to get all the fluid out...?? 2] i want to wash them out good BUT dont want to disassemble the fork tube,,, a guy from another forum said i could use kerosine,, is that safe,, i would let it hang, drip and exercise them to be sure i got it out for a few days.. 3] what weight fluid is best [ i wish to use the oem stock weight but dont know what it is ] ...? what amount in each tube....? 4] seems stiff up there and i got the bike used,,, is there a way i can verify that is the oem springs are in there....?? 5] if i have verified that the oem spring is in fact in place is there a set length for the spacer at the top [ starting "stock" length ] ,,,?????? i understand that some set sag and all,, i just want to get it to where it comes from the factory...?? I know there are many questions here... Any help is greatly appreciated,,, and safe riding...?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runner Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Same boat as me. Check my post from a a few days ago for some really good replies. I am starting with an oil change this weekend and see how it improves the ride...i plan on just dropping the front tire and removing the allen bolts and measuring the old oil (should be about 16 oz. ). I will simply put this same amount back (BelRay 5 wt) in without pulling the forks (again, check my older post.). If action doesn't really improve i will head to the Race Crafter website for new springs. Good luck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBadExxample Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 OEM Spring, Tighter coils at bottom OEM Spacer Parallax adds ~1/2" to the actual length. Do you have a manual yet? OEM fork oil is 10wt. But that doesn't mean much, as explained by Peter Verdone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXTi Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I drained my forks and washed them out with out with kerosene. It seemed to work well and I've had no problems with them afterward. I replaced my stock springs with 1.05kg/mm springs from Jaws. I used 10wt. Silkolene Race fork oil and it works fine for my weight and riding style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatvmax Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 OEM Spring, Tighter coils at bottom OEM Spacer Parallax adds ~1/2" to the actual length. Do you have a manual yet? OEM fork oil is 10wt. But that doesn't mean much, as explained by Peter Verdone thanks much,, a picture is worth a 1000 :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I have no drain plug on this model so i have a few questions... Let's start there- I'm pretty sure you do. 6mm socket head recessed in the end of the fork, you have to remove the axle to get to it. If you remove that, the damper assembly will slide right out, making draining and cleaning much easier. The only rub is if the damper assembly decides to turn with the drain bolt you're going to need an impact wrench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Eddy Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I have no drain plug on this model so i have a few questions... Let's start there- I'm pretty sure you do. 6mm socket head recessed in the end of the fork, you have to remove the axle to get to it. If you remove that, the damper assembly will slide right out, making draining and cleaning much easier. The only rub is if the damper assembly decides to turn with the drain bolt you're going to need an impact wrench. I was told by a Honda service tech the trick is to leave the fork caps loose but don't remove. Then loosen the 6mm hex damper bolt in the bottom. The fork spring pressure will usually let you remove that bottom bolt without an impact or the factory specialty tool. If not then you need an impact. BTW you need a long 6mm hex socket or at least I did on my 929(still haven't done the XX) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatvmax Posted December 31, 2007 Author Share Posted December 31, 2007 OEM Spring, Tighter coils at bottom OEM Spacer Parallax adds ~1/2" to the actual length. Do you have a manual yet? OEM fork oil is 10wt. But that doesn't mean much, as explained by Peter Verdone thanks much,, a picture is worth a 1000 :-) Ok I took the fork tubes off the bike and removed the caps at the top,, There was little to no tesion on them from the spring inside,, I know on every other bike i ever have owned there was some pressure on them,,, Let me say the reason i started this work was to verify that all parts were stock as the front end feels rigid and doesnt have much travel at all.. so as to the post.. It looks like my springs are shorter by almost a 1/4 - 1/2 inch..? [ but they LOOK the same,,, ] ..??? also the adjustment at the top of the fork is backed all the way in.. I know there is a big discussion about sag and such ,, BUT can someine dumb it down a bit and let me know if it is typical fir the stock setup to be cranked all the way in one direction,,???? what is the normal / most common factory setting...???? I have included pictures of the springs, spacer, and adjustment at top,,, if so is there anyone on the site that would sell a set of stock springs as there is no way i will have the $$ for a new set IF these are worn,,,???????? Again all,, Any advice is always much appreciated...!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneXX Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Looks like your spacer is about 1/2" shorter than the one Matt showed. That would take out alot of preload. Also that spring looks like it's a bit more progressive (more tightly wound coils at the bottom) than a stock one. Did a lightweight own it before you? Maybe threw in lighter springs from something else and cut the spacer length. Also those fork caps are not stock. Do the bars clamp on only to the fork cap??? Here's a link to the fork microfiche... Fork microfiche Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBadExxample Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 My springs are 237mm long. According to the 97/98 service manual the minimum length is 233.1 mm. Download the 1999-2002 service manual to verify the service (minimum) length of your springs. My spacer is 200mm long and uncut, kinda like my junk. But that's a whole 'nutter topic. BTW, I'm 95% sure that carbed (97/98) and FI blackbirds use the same fork springs, spacers and caps. The sliders and fork lowers are different, but only because the FI blackbirds use taller inner and outer bushings. I have an extra set (two each) of caps, springs, spacers, and joint plates. If you want them, send me a PM. OEM fork caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatvmax Posted December 31, 2007 Author Share Posted December 31, 2007 My springs are 237mm long. According to the 97/98 service manual the minimum length is 233.1 mm. Download the 1999-2002 service manual to verify the service (minimum) length of your springs. My spacer is 200mm long and uncut, kinda like my junk. But that's a whole 'nutter topic. BTW, I'm 95% sure that carbed (97/98) and FI blackbirds use the same fork springs, spacers and caps. The sliders and fork lowers are different, but only because the FI blackbirds use taller inner and outer bushings. I have an extra set (two each) of caps, springs, spacers, and joint plates. If you want them, send me a PM. OEM fork caps. PM Sent,, Ill take u up on the offer for the stock setup ,, my bike is a 99 fi and im guessing the caps / spacers / springs from your model are fine,, 1999 - 2002 shows fork spring length at [ standard = 232.9 ( 9.17 ) ] [ Service Limit = 228.2 ( 8.98 ) ] the spacer length is not listed,, or should I say I cant find it,, It does say "pipe runout = .20 ( .008 ) but i dont have a clue what that one means.. PS: what is the purpose of the caps i have now being so tall compared to the stock ones,, ? wouldnt they make my forks [ longer ] ...? making the bike higher in the front... when i get the stock caps on there that will actually lower the bike,, or should say the seat height,,,? right...? also opinion on the adjustment up top appreciated,, i put my cell # in the pm,,, to answer the eariler question the clamps actually do bolt on to the tall caps [ well did ] but i am not going to put them back on,,, i just got a new front tire also as that one was severly cupped and the bike only has 6k on her,,, It was a one owner bike, i got it from a steeler and they wouldnt give me any info on the guy / girl... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneXX Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 The longer caps were so you could raise the bars higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatvmax Posted December 31, 2007 Author Share Posted December 31, 2007 The longer caps were so you could raise the bars higher. ok so the previous owner just slid them down in making my forks to long,,,, .. that felt VERY odd / bad in turns,, it kind of felt like the bike did NOT want to turn at all... so now i guess im just hunting for the exact length of the spacer on a 99 - 02 and the oem caps ,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrich Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 The sliders and fork lowers are different, but only because the FI blackbirds use taller inner and outer bushings The valving is also different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatvmax Posted January 1, 2008 Author Share Posted January 1, 2008 The sliders and fork lowers are different, but only because the FI blackbirds use taller inner and outer bushings The valving is also different. OK all.. I have figured this one out,,, 1. the springs are stock and fall well in the servicable tolerence as per the manual and my measurements,, 2. The non oem caps are in fact for raising the bars up 3. The spring spacers are in fact cut by 1/4 inch,,, REASON,, the non oem fork caps DO NOT have the 1/4 inch resess cut into them like the oem ones do on the bottom, so if u left the spacers the same stock length then the preload would be off [ increased ] by 1/4 inch,, 4. KEY POINT.. somewhere along the way someone slid the non oem caps down to the 1.5 inch above the top tripple like the oem ones go thus creating the crazy handeling i was experiencing with forks that were acting like forks that were 1.5 inches longer than stock... Course of action,,, 1. Clean forks out as i set out to do,, 2. use all the same parts,,, INSTALL THE FORKS PROPERLY leaving 1.5 inches of the tube above the tripple thus restoring the preload and the fork length to OEM, [ NOT COUNTING THE NON OEM CAPS ] 3. take advantage of the non oem caps and mount my heli bars on them a bit lower so my clamps catch 1/2 the fork tube and 1/2 the non oem cap thus giving me some extra height while giving me the safety of clamping on to something other than JUST the fork cap that could possibly loosen in flight so to speak,,,, One piece of info not given in the manual would be VERY helpful to verify all.. Does anyone know what the length of a stock spring spacer is for the 99 - 2002 models,, it must be different than the 97-98 models as the part number changes on the site where the oem fish and #'s are listed..? PLEASE reality check me board members .... Your advice is respected and appreciated... and PS: Happy New Year.... !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMG Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 One last thing to be aware of is the "pipe runout". That is the allowable amount the fork tube (or pipe) can be out of true, or straight. Imagine if one or both of your tubes is not perfectly straight by .20 and then imagine that one tube is "bent" forward and one back. When you bolt everything up tight something is going to stick, or at least not slide smoothly. The best practice, in my experience, is to verify that the tubes are straight before assembly. Then after assembly but before installing springs, bolt the front assembly solid with the axle and verify that the whole assembly slides full travel without any resistance. If you do find sticky spots it means that the tubes are not perfectly parallel. Rotating the tubes sometimes will solve sticks. With luck they will be perfect, but when they are not the ride suffers and wear increases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatvmax Posted January 2, 2008 Author Share Posted January 2, 2008 One last thing to be aware of is the "pipe runout". That is the allowable amount the fork tube (or pipe) can be out of true, or straight. Imagine if one or both of your tubes is not perfectly straight by .20 and then imagine that one tube is "bent" forward and one back. When you bolt everything up tight something is going to stick, or at least not slide smoothly. The best practice, in my experience, is to verify that the tubes are straight before assembly. Then after assembly but before installing springs, bolt the front assembly solid with the axle and verify that the whole assembly slides full travel without any resistance. If you do find sticky spots it means that the tubes are not perfectly parallel. Rotating the tubes sometimes will solve sticks. With luck they will be perfect, but when they are not the ride suffers and wear increases. sounds like a plan,, and i have put them back on the bike with no springs , or spacers, or caps, or fluid,, :-) just waiting to get a length on the spring spacers for the 99 - 02 model and then I will assemble.. would u happen to know where i can get that info...?? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatvmax Posted January 4, 2008 Author Share Posted January 4, 2008 One last thing to be aware of is the "pipe runout". That is the allowable amount the fork tube (or pipe) can be out of true, or straight. Imagine if one or both of your tubes is not perfectly straight by .20 and then imagine that one tube is "bent" forward and one back. When you bolt everything up tight something is going to stick, or at least not slide smoothly. The best practice, in my experience, is to verify that the tubes are straight before assembly. Then after assembly but before installing springs, bolt the front assembly solid with the axle and verify that the whole assembly slides full travel without any resistance. If you do find sticky spots it means that the tubes are not perfectly parallel. Rotating the tubes sometimes will solve sticks. With luck they will be perfect, but when they are not the ride suffers and wear increases. sounds like a plan,, and i have put them back on the bike with no springs , or spacers, or caps, or fluid,, :-) just waiting to get a length on the spring spacers for the 99 - 02 model and then I will assemble.. would u happen to know where i can get that info...?? Thanks thanks anyway board,,, if anyone is looking in the future the spring spacers are 200mm on the 99 - 02 thanks much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatvmax Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 got it all back together last night,,, tubes at the right height and new rubber all around,, FEELS AWESOME,, and correct... Thanks For all the help board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BASTOK Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Hi chatvmax, I'm doing my front suspension maintenance and I was reading your post about it of the 2008. In some part you said: " also the adjustment at the top of the fork is backed all the way in.. I know there is a big discussion about sag and such ,, BUT can someine dumb it down a bit and let me know if it is typical fir the stock setup to be cranked all the way in one direction,,???? what is the normal / most common factory setting...???? " I want to ask the same question. My suspension has the adjustment all the way in, asi yours. I want to know/confirm that I can adjust this to my personal taste or I must let it as it is. Thanksss Bastok I'm talking about this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BASTOK Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Up !! (I want to asemble the forks before weekend!!! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para045 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Up !! (I want to asemble the forks before weekend!!! ) It shouldn't make any difference as that is just the locknut onto the damper tube which moves up and down anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon haney Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Up !! (I want to asemble the forks before weekend!!! ) It shouldn't make any difference as that is just the locknut onto the damper tube which moves up and down anyway +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BASTOK Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Ok, ok I undestand !! Thanks both ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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