Stock seat vs Corbin Smuggler

[Guest cudgel]

I ride a 2000 Bird with a Corbin Smuggler and am uncomfortable at slow speeds and stopping, having to be very careful that I can reach the ground. I've never had a stock seat to compare, so I'm asking for opinions on which would be better for a short rider. The Corbin seems wider in front and splays your legs out, compounding the problem. Any help?

[CxBXR]

I have no seat time on a corbin, but from what I hear- they set down lower than the stock seat allowing a better "tuck" at speed's.

[TX1100F]

I love my Smuggler! I have a 34 inch inseam. The OEM seat is taller so if you can't hit the ground with the Smuggler, it'll be harder with the OEM. As a side note, a friend asked if the harder Smuggler was really more comfortable than the OEM seat. HELL YES!!! Keep the Smuggler, deflate the tires.

[blackhawkxx]

The Corbin seems wider in front and splays your legs out, compounding the problem

I have both and you are right. The Corbin is a little lower but is wider in the front as you said. If you go to one of the meets or know of another XX around, it sure is easy to trade the seats for a ride and see if it helps you out. If so, you can pick one up pretty cheap and it isn't too hard to trim some foam out of it to make it even lower.

[Skull]

One of the popular modifications for female Valkyrie riders is to have Corbin make their saddle with a "nose job", where they purposely make the front of the seat narrower than usual. I'm sure they'd do it for a Smuggler, if one wanted to plop down MSRP for it.

[FiXXation]

I have a 30" inseam and just went from a factory seat to a Smuggler.

The bike has no 6mm spacer on the rear shock.

The factory seat, being narrower on the front, allowed me to just flat-foot on a stop on level ground. It assisted in keeping me planted against the tank so my short arms could reach the stock clip-ons more easily. It also tended to restrict side-to-side movement due to the more crowned design, somewhat restricted air flow to my tush, and gave me a permanent wedgie on a long ride.

The Corbin is wider at the front, flatter from front to back, sits a little lower, and has a slightly larger padded area at the crotch area at the tank. The Corbin padding is also firmer than the stock foam.

The result is I can not get my heels down on a stop on level ground and backing up on any loose surface is dicy. The seat does not hold me against the tank on rapid acceleration like the stocker did (I have to "hold on" to keep from sliding back). The crotch pad gently pushes me away from the tank just cruising. The wider, flatter surface allows more movement to relieve pressure points, as well as allows more air to keep my tush more comfortable on longer rides, and no more wedgie. My knees accept the lower seating position OK, and the wider front portion lends a little thigh support that the factory seat doesn't. The seat was not enough lower to have to adjust the mirrors.

Depending on your priorities and the length of your rides, I would think if you are short enough and don't like tip-toeing or one-legging it at a stop, the factory seat would be worth trying.

[John01XX]

I have a 30" inseam and just went from a factory seat to a Smuggler.

The bike has no 6mm spacer on the rear shock.

The factory seat, being narrower on the front, allowed me to just flat-foot on a stop on level ground. It assisted in keeping me planted against the tank so my short arms could reach the stock clip-ons more easily. It also tended to restrict side-to-side movement due to the more crowned design, somewhat restricted air flow to my tush, and gave me a permanent wedgie on a long ride.

The Corbin is wider at the front, flatter from front to back, sits a little lower, and has a slightly larger padded area at the crotch area at the tank. The Corbin padding is also firmer than the stock foam.

The result is I can not get my heels down on a stop on level ground and backing up on any loose surface is dicy. The seat does not hold me against the tank on rapid acceleration like the stocker did (I have to "hold on" to keep from sliding back). The crotch pad gently pushes me away from the tank just cruising. The wider, flatter surface allows more movement to relieve pressure points, as well as allows more air to keep my tush more comfortable on longer rides, and no more wedgie. My knees accept the lower seating position OK, and the wider front portion lends a little thigh support that the factory seat doesn't. The seat was not enough lower to have to adjust the mirrors.

Depending on your priorities and the length of your rides, I would think if you are short enough and don't like tip-toeing or one-legging it at a stop, the factory seat would be worth trying.

Very accurate comparo !!

I have both also and agree with above on all points. 30in inseam also!

[DrDyno]

I ride a 2000 Bird with a Corbin Smuggler and am uncomfortable at slow speeds and stopping, having to be very careful that I can reach the ground. I've never had a stock seat to compare, so I'm asking for opinions on which would be better for a short rider. The Corbin seems wider in front and splays your legs out, compounding the problem. Any help?

I, too, have a Smuggler and, although lower than the stock seat, its width at the front makes it effectively longer to the ground.

HOWEVER... there is a pretty simple fix. The XX has triangular shaped linkage plates which attach to the rear shock. If you remove them, you'll notice the distance between the bolt holes are not the same. By flipping the triangular pieces and reinstalling them you lower the rear of the bike by a hair over 1-inch.

A vertically-challenged friend of mine with a Smuggler on a Blackbird simply rotated those triangular linkage plates and his inseam problem was solved. You can, of course, compensate by lowering the triple trees in the front or... not. He didn't readjust the triple trees and his bike handled great.

[Guest cudgel]

Thanks to all who replied. Valuable info, I learned something.

[blackhawkxx]

By flipping the triangular pieces and reinstalling them you lower the rear of the bike by a hair over 1-inch.

Is that right? So why did I spend $100+ on a lowering link?

[DrDyno]

By flipping the triangular pieces and reinstalling them you lower the rear of the bike by a hair over 1-inch.

Is that right? So why did I spend $100+ on a lowering link?

Uh... Marketing?

[Fonzie]

I ride a 2000 Bird with a Corbin Smuggler and am uncomfortable at slow speeds and stopping, having to be very careful that I can reach the ground. I've never had a stock seat to compare, so I'm asking for opinions on which would be better for a short rider. The Corbin seems wider in front and splays your legs out, compounding the problem. Any help?

Give me a holler if you decide you don't want the smuggler

[Redbird USA]

HOWEVER... there is a pretty simple fix. The XX has triangular shaped linkage plates which attach to the rear shock. If you remove them, you'll notice the distance between the bolt holes are not the same. By flipping the triangular pieces and reinstalling them you lower the rear of the bike by a hair over 1-inch.

A vertically-challenged friend of mine with a Smuggler on a Blackbird simply rotated those triangular linkage plates and his inseam problem was solved. You can, of course, compensate by lowering the triple trees in the front or... not. He didn't readjust the triple trees and his bike handled great.

I am 30" inseam also. This sounds like a great idea to get a bit lower. Will look into it this weekend.

Thanks John! :icon_thumbsup:

[Redbird]

....By flipping the triangular pieces and reinstalling them you lower the rear of the bike by a hair over 1-inch.

A vertically-challenged friend of mine with a Smuggler on a Blackbird simply rotated those triangular linkage plates and his inseam problem was solved. You can, of course, compensate by lowering the triple trees in the front or... not. He didn't readjust the triple trees and his bike handled great.

I seriously doubt it. You drop the rear an inch and leave the front alone, it's going to steer like a dump truck. It's a matter of physics, not opinion.

It's a good tip on lowering the rear that I had never heard of before, but don't expect it not to slow the steering considerably. You can't make that drastic of a change to steering geometry without seriously effecting the handling.

[DrDyno]

....By flipping the triangular pieces and reinstalling them you lower the rear of the bike by a hair over 1-inch.

A vertically-challenged friend of mine with a Smuggler on a Blackbird simply rotated those triangular linkage plates and his inseam problem was solved. You can, of course, compensate by lowering the triple trees in the front or... not. He didn't readjust the triple trees and his bike handled great.

I seriously doubt it. You drop the rear an inch and leave the front alone, it's going to steer like a dump truck. It's a matter of physics, not opinion.

It's a good tip on lowering the rear that I had never heard of before, but don't expect it not to slow the steering considerably. You can't make that drastic of a change to steering geometry without seriously effecting the handling.

Just for some cred, my friend's name is Norm Edwards and, as far as I know, he also pioneered the VFR clip-on swap. Here's a brief story and pics on his work from the IXXRA:

http://www.ixxra.com/vfrbars.htm

I'm no physicist and, at 61, I'm not the quickest racer through the twisties. However, I spent several hundred miles on Norm's bike AFTER he rotated the triangle brackets and I can tell you it handled at least as well as my then stock-suspended '02 ZRX1200. Could it have been improved by lowering the fork trees? Probably. However, he never bothered to do it and the bike didn't seem to suffer on the street.

Originally Norm (maybe 5' 6") was going to remove the triangles and fashion his own suspension pieces (in place of the triangles) to lower his '02 'Bird. He had already bought the material to do it. When he finally pulled the triangles (easy job) he noticed the distance between the holes at the three corners weren't the same at each leg of the triangle (if memory serves, the triangles aren't symetrical... not equilateral). So, rather than fashion new components, he simply flipped the triangles for a different hole distance and... it worked! I think he said the holes he used were about 1/4" closer together than the stock installation which resulted in the bike being about 1" lower.

After he put it back together he couldn't believe no one had done it before him (not that we knew of).

At 68 then (almost 73 now) Norm is the fastest street rider I know. That's not to say he's the fastest through the twisties but, his average speed between any two points usually sets records! Today he rides an '06 GSXR-750. If I successfully uploaded the Pic, that's Norm in the middle and me on the right in the white shirt.

[Redbird]

Not sure how swapping a set of bars lends anyone any "cred" when it comes to steering geometry, but thanks for the link.

I believe your friend is fast. I believe he's happy with the mod. I even believe that his modified XX handled as well as your stock suspended ZRX.

None of this changes that fact that dropping the rear over an inch will slow the steering considerably. Call Lindemann, Traxxion, Dan Kyle, or the suspension guru of your choice and say "I'm gonna drop the rear an inch and leave the front alone, what'll that do to the handling?" You'll get the same answer every time.

Like I said above, great idea for lowering the rear. Free, fully reversable, excellent find. But it is going to strongly affect the handling. It's not worth arguing about, really.

[DrDyno]

It's not worth arguing about, really.

Wasn't arguing... was ENLIGHTENING.

[Redbird USA]

Just rotated my triangles. I can flat foot now, 5'8", 30 inseam! Going out for a ride to check the handling!

WELL IMHO FOR ALL YOU GUYS THAT WOULD LIKE TO HAVE YOUR FEET A LITTLE FLATTER ON THE GROUND AT A STOP, ROTATE YOUR TRIANGLES. I had been thinking about lowering links. Just didn't like the way they work or really had full trust for them.

I only rode about 25 miles after the change. But, it was dramatic. I actually felt like I had more control of the bike, maybe too much! It would be easy, for me, to overdrive or feel too confident when approaching turns and twists. I did not push it too much. I did, kind of, find out where the limits would be.

It was not under nor over steering. Every turn was smooth. To me it actually felt better sitting back a little further and this slight bit lower. Before I always sat right on the tank. I was able to sit back a bit and it was real nice.

NOW, I was not on a track or dragging my knees. If you are pushing that hard, DON'T LOWER IT. You will grind your pegs down to nothing and could get scraped up real good. It could also be worse. But, if you just like steady riding and sweeping turns and want to be a little more comfortable this is the fix. That is if you are probably 5'8" or less.

[FiXXation]

Can you still get it up on the center stand?

[blackhawkxx]

Can you still get it up on the center stand?

If it is really a one inch drop, it isn't easy.

If you back the rear tire up onto a board first, it's better.

[Redbird USA]

Can you still get it up on the center stand?

Yes, I can with no problem. I really don't feel any difference pulling it up on the centerstand and mine always goes on the center!

I only weigh 155-160, I do work out & push ups daily. But, putting it on the center stand is more technique than muscling it up to me.

[DrDyno]

Just rotated my triangles. I can flat foot now, 5'8", 30 inseam! Going out for a ride to check the handling!

WELL IMHO FOR ALL YOU GUYS THAT WOULD LIKE TO HAVE YOUR FEET A LITTLE FLATTER ON THE GROUND AT A STOP, ROTATE YOUR TRIANGLES.

It was not under nor over steering. Every turn was smooth. To me it actually felt better sitting back a little further and this slight bit lower. Before I always sat right on the tank. I was able to sit back a bit and it was real nice... if you just like steady riding and sweeping turns and want to be a little more comfortable this is the fix.

Well, Tonto, our work is done here! Hiyo Sil...verrrrr....