Texhoss Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 I have been using independent gas stations for the last year or so for my truck and Bird. I burn super for the Bird and mid grade for the truck. My, I have been losing performance in both. I took a trip in the truck, and just made it around another car on a two lane pass. The truck is a 2004 GMC with the 5.3 L. motor and has 19,000 miles. It use to run lots better!!! You folks have been talking about Sea Foam, it was time to try it in the truck and bike. I now get 2 miles a gallon better in the truck, with (17.5 MPG) on the computer. It runs like it use to, with a lot of power. I used half a can of Sea Foam in the Bird yesterday and put 60 miles on the bike. It runs like a scalded ape, with tons of low end power, and through the power band. How much of this power is going to last? Does the Sea Foam increase the octane and how much is clean injectors? I have 8000 miles on the bike. I think I will stay with brand name gas, from now on, the 5 cents a gallon isn't worth savings. How often do you use the Sea Foam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para045 Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 I have been using independent gas stations for the last year or so for my truck and Bird. I burn super for the Bird and mid grade for the truck. My, I have been losing performance in both. I took a trip in the truck, and just made it around another car on a two lane pass. The truck is a 2004 GMC Well there's your problem :icon_wall: :icon_duh: :icon_nono: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanix Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 That sea foam is pretty good for snake oil. I had a truck that looked like it came out of the bottom of an irrigation ditch. The rings were pretty stuck, and it ran like crap and smoked like a chevy. 2 bottles of sea foam in 1 tank and the rings unstuck after about 100 miles. I put it in a tank of a bike that was stored till the gas dried. About a week in the tank and the varnish almost all disappeared. Drained the fuel and put it in the truck, lol. It cleans it well, but crap gas is crap gas. I stick to Chevron, but choose your flavor. Johnny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zypp Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 i don't really think there is any difference between the name brand gas and the inexpensive gas, except lining the pockets of the big gas companies that have been taking advantage of rule #8. one time many years ago i followed one of those gas delivery trucks and it stopped at two major brand stations and one cheap station. i've always put cheap gas in my sports cars and in my motorcycles with no problems. :icon_snooty: also my bird runs better on regular than it did when i thought it needed premium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texhoss Posted July 5, 2006 Author Share Posted July 5, 2006 Para, my last and I do mean my last FORD burned with a ignition short. My Insurance brought on a Auto Engineer in fire losses and found out that mine and other 88 thru 91 or 92 F150s had a short. Ford denied the claim only to pay other people off 2 1/2 years after my loss. Ford had a large recall. They gave me nothing. In my book Ford sucks big time and can kiss my ass!!! I was out a lot of money on the loss, over $1500 What a piece of shit!! Found On Road Dead!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganDonor Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 From what I understand from my mother-in-law (who works for a local oil company), the cheapo gas stations get their gas from the same tanks as the big ones... but get to get it after the big ones... so they get some of the crap from the bottom of the tanks. She also advises staying away from gas stations that are getting a delivery while you are there.. the new gas coming into the underground storage tanks stirs up the sediment at the bottom of the tanks, causing you to get more crap in your own tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1K Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 From what I understand from my mother-in-law (who works for a local oil company), the cheapo gas stations get their gas from the same tanks as the big ones... but get to get it after the big ones... so they get some of the crap from the bottom of the tanks. She also advises staying away from gas stations that are getting a delivery while you are there.. the new gas coming into the underground storage tanks stirs up the sediment at the bottom of the tanks, causing you to get more crap in your own tank. Sounds like total b.s. to me. Not saying your m.i.l didn't say it, i just think she's full of shit. i don't really think there is any difference between the name brand gas and the inexpensive gas +1 I wouuld think the biggest difference might come in how long gas sits. A gas station that pumps most gas might also tend to have the freshest. Although I think the difference might only be a day or two. A station that pumps a lot gets gas every couple days... vs. another station that might once a week. Shouldn't make much difference considering it sits in your tank longer than that. Para, my last and I do mean my last FORD burned with a ignition short. My Insurance brought on a Auto Engineer in fire losses and found out that mine and other 88 thru 91 or 92 F150s had a short. Ford denied the claim only to pay other people off 2 1/2 years after my loss. Ford had a large recall. They gave me nothing. In my book Ford sucks big time and can kiss my ass!!! I was out a lot of money on the loss, over $1500 What a piece of shit!! Found On Road Dead!! I could tell you the same kind of story about my 95 blazer that was a lemon... American made vehicles are not Honda's... You're rolling the dice with all of them. Chevy told me to pound sand and offered me a free 'extended warranty' So I hate Chevy... But at the same time, had I ended up with a Ford Lemon (which I'm sure exist) I probably would have had the exact same experience. The error would be in thinking that any American vehicle manufacturer is different than any other. As far as your gas... I'll bet you'd have had the same issue with any gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanivic Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 From what I understand from my mother-in-law (who works for a local oil company), the cheapo gas stations get their gas from the same tanks as the big ones... but get to get it after the big ones... so they get some of the crap from the bottom of the tanks. She also advises staying away from gas stations that are getting a delivery while you are there.. the new gas coming into the underground storage tanks stirs up the sediment at the bottom of the tanks, causing you to get more crap in your own tank. Sounds like total b.s. to me. Not saying your m.i.l didn't say it, i just think she's full of shit. She is right to a certain extent. You'd have condenstation in the tanks below the ground and it's possible that one might end up getting some water content along with petrol. V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganDonor Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 From what I understand from my mother-in-law (who works for a local oil company), the cheapo gas stations get their gas from the same tanks as the big ones... but get to get it after the big ones... so they get some of the crap from the bottom of the tanks. She also advises staying away from gas stations that are getting a delivery while you are there.. the new gas coming into the underground storage tanks stirs up the sediment at the bottom of the tanks, causing you to get more crap in your own tank. Sounds like total b.s. to me. Not saying your m.i.l didn't say it, i just think she's full of shit. I also have my doubts about the first paragraph... but the second one? I think she's right on about the stirring up of shit in the second one... think about how much crap ends up at the bottom of our vehicle's gas tanks over time.. and then multiply that by the amount of gas they're storing, UNDERGROUND. I would take a guess that the station tanks underground have more garbage in them than ours do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 From what I understand from my mother-in-law (who works for a local oil company), the cheapo gas stations get their gas from the same tanks as the big ones... but get to get it after the big ones... so they get some of the crap from the bottom of the tanks. She also advises staying away from gas stations that are getting a delivery while you are there.. the new gas coming into the underground storage tanks stirs up the sediment at the bottom of the tanks, causing you to get more crap in your own tank. They probably don't get first priority on getting fuel, but fuel tanks of all kinds (standard tanks at the gas station, pumper trucks, and large storage tanks) drain and/or pump from the bottom, so the people to get any water and shit that may be there will be the first ones to get gas out of a particular source. Besides, the fuel filters inside gas pumps (mandated) take care of any sediment that may or may not be in the fuel, and your engine's fuel filter filters down small enough to catch water molicules, so none of it actually touches your engine anyway... Most of what you're feeling is the carbon coming off of the valves and pistons and such... IMO, the best thing you can do for your engine is change your fuel filter at the reccomended interval, and Seafoam does do good at cleaning the stuff out of the insides of your engine, so the heat can be more readily transferred. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1K Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 She is right to a certain extent. You'd have condenstation in the tanks below the ground and it's possible that one might end up getting some water content along with petrol. Condensation is different than sediment. But perhaps condensation was what she meant. Most gas stations stick their tanks daily. When they stick their tank they put a paste on the end of the stick that changes color if there is water. Its REALLY bad for a station if their gas contains water and its NOT expensive to test and remove it if there is water. But mostly... I call complete bullshit on the fact that the independent gas stations get the 'bad' gas. "cheapo gas stations get their gas "after" the big ones do?" come on... That's b.s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanivic Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 They probably don't get first priority on getting fuel, but fuel tanks of all kinds (standard tanks at the gas station, pumper trucks, and large storage tanks) drain and/or pump from the bottom, so the people to get any water and shit that may be there will be the first ones to get gas out of a particular source. Besides, the fuel filters inside gas pumps (mandated) take care of any sediment that may or may not be in the fuel, and your engine's fuel filter filters down small enough to catch water molicules, so none of it actually touches your engine anyway... Most of what you're feeling is the carbon coming off of the valves and pistons and such... IMO, the best thing you can do for your engine is change your fuel filter at the reccomended interval, and Seafoam does do good at cleaning the stuff out of the insides of your engine, so the heat can be more readily transferred. Mike fuel filter does not have the capacity to distinguish between a combustible liquid to a non-cumbustible liquid, all it does is filter out particulate matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1K Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 (standard tanks at the gas station, pumper trucks, and large storage tanks) drain and/or pump from the bottom If this is true (that they pump from the bottom) water is heavier than gas... So the water is on the bottom of the tank. So if there WAS water in the gas, it is on the bottom getting sucked right into your tank first. In that case you'd WANT to fuel up RIGHT after the tanker drops a load in because it would mix up the water that would settle to the bottom of the tank. Same with sediment. If you pull from the bottom of a tank, you are pulling sediment FIRST. In that scenario you'd still be BETTER off fueling right after a load was dropped in the tank because the sediment on the bottom is mixed up and not settled by the intake ready to get pumped out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanivic Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 "cheapo gas stations get their gas "after" the big ones do?" come on... That's b.s. agree. what if the indy station needs petrol immediately, do they have to close the shop and wait till chevron et al get the gas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFT Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Over the years I've had a few tanks of "bad" gas. It seems that more often than not it was when I got gas at smaller independent stations. Twice I took cars into the shop not knowing what the problem was. Both times it was water in the gas. I will go out of my way to get chevron gas. Never had a problem with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 They probably don't get first priority on getting fuel, but fuel tanks of all kinds (standard tanks at the gas station, pumper trucks, and large storage tanks) drain and/or pump from the bottom, so the people to get any water and shit that may be there will be the first ones to get gas out of a particular source. Besides, the fuel filters inside gas pumps (mandated) take care of any sediment that may or may not be in the fuel, and your engine's fuel filter filters down small enough to catch water molicules, so none of it actually touches your engine anyway... Most of what you're feeling is the carbon coming off of the valves and pistons and such... IMO, the best thing you can do for your engine is change your fuel filter at the reccomended interval, and Seafoam does do good at cleaning the stuff out of the insides of your engine, so the heat can be more readily transferred. Mike fuel filter does not have the capacity to distinguish between a combustible liquid to a non-cumbustible liquid, all it does is filter out particulate matter. Wrong. Water molecules are larger than gasoline molicules, and if the filter is larger than gasoline molicules, and smaller than water molecules, then what happens? The water stays in the filter. A lot of times, what happens when you get water in the gas is, either the filter isn't a GOOD OE filter, and lets water through and the engine runs like shit, or it is a good, small particle filtering filter, and the water just plugs up the filter, and it runs like shit. Either way, if you get a little bit of water, not a big deal, but you don't want lots of water. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RXX Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 They probably don't get first priority on getting fuel, but fuel tanks of all kinds (standard tanks at the gas station, pumper trucks, and large storage tanks) drain and/or pump from the bottom, so the people to get any water and shit that may be there will be the first ones to get gas out of a particular source. Besides, the fuel filters inside gas pumps (mandated) take care of any sediment that may or may not be in the fuel, and your engine's fuel filter filters down small enough to catch water molicules, so none of it actually touches your engine anyway... Most of what you're feeling is the carbon coming off of the valves and pistons and such... IMO, the best thing you can do for your engine is change your fuel filter at the reccomended interval, and Seafoam does do good at cleaning the stuff out of the insides of your engine, so the heat can be more readily transferred. Mike fuel filter does not have the capacity to distinguish between a combustible liquid to a non-cumbustible liquid, all it does is filter out particulate matter. Wrong. Water molecules are larger than gasoline molicules, and if the filter is larger than gasoline molicules, and smaller than water molecules, then what happens? The water stays in the filter. A lot of times, what happens when you get water in the gas is, either the filter isn't a GOOD OE filter, and lets water through and the engine runs like shit, or it is a good, small particle filtering filter, and the water just plugs up the filter, and it runs like shit. Either way, if you get a little bit of water, not a big deal, but you don't want lots of water. Mike Just to set the rcord straight, gas filters do not filter water molecules out as a function of size, rather, they utilize differences in solubilty (phase) of different liquids. Gasoline is an extremely non polar entity, while water has a distinct and profound ploarity. AND, without looking it up, I seem to recall that petrols (of most liquid sorts) are in fact much LARGER than water molecules. (MW of 18 (water) versus MW greater than 60 for any hydrocarbon with chain length of 7 or more carbons) To shed some light on this topic, until a few years ago, with the globalization of the petroleum industry, the cheap stations actually may have had inferior gas to a much greater extent than they do now. Remember we used to have many small refineries spread out around the country. I think Marathon still gets a lot of it's production domestically and refines it's own, for example. These smaller refineries may have custom blended for small chains, and the requirements may not have been as stringent for house brands, or the refineries were just not as good as there bigger competitors. I worked at a truck stop from 1972 until about '77 during the embargo, and our tankers reported getting their gas & diesel (Union) from the same barges on the Mississippi as all the other stations. True? Well, if you believe truckers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanivic Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Philip, Thanks for info. V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Just to set the rcord straight, gas filters do not filter water molecules out as a function of size, rather, they utilize differences in solubilty (phase) of different liquids. Gasoline is an extremely non polar entity, while water has a distinct and profound ploarity. AND, without looking it up, I seem to recall that petrols (of most liquid sorts) are in fact much LARGER than water molecules. (MW of 18 (water) versus MW greater than 60 for any hydrocarbon with chain length of 7 or more carbons) Wow, even what I meant to say wasn't right then... I was thinking molecules, but I can't even remember the proper name for what I'm thinking of... I was thinking it was because water molecules get together and create hydrogen bonds, so the "thing" that is a bunch of water molecules joined together is too big to fit through the filter, unless the pressure got high enough to break those bonds... You learn something every day. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bird Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Perhaps a foolish ? but does the Bird have a "fuel filter"? I don't remember anything in my owner's manual. If so, when does it get replaced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganDonor Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Very informative thread! (And not just because I was informed my mother-in-law is full of shit!) :icon_doh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1K Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Very informative thread! (And not just because I was informed my mother-in-law is full of shit!) :icon_doh: lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Perhaps a foolish ? but does the Bird have a "fuel filter"? I don't remember anything in my owner's manual. If so, when does it get replaced? I know the carb'd ones just have a pretty good sized plastic screen above the petcock in the tank. It does not need replacement. I don't know about the FI bikes... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texhoss Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 I have talked with other people who said their cars were not runnig well and each of us independently decided to quit using this gas station. It is a new station The Flying J, with the best price, and I still say gas quality can differ as much as different house paints, whikey or beer!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1K Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I have talked with other people who said their cars were not runnig well and each of us independently decided to quit using this gas station. It is a new station The Flying J, with the best price, and I still say gas quality can differ as much as different house paints, whikey or beer!!! More likely a problem with 1 station than a problem with the 'cheap station' I would def. try a different station but wouldn't neccesarily avoid one cause its independant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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