XXBIRD Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Nexxt...? If you're feeling all spunky, there's still two points in my original post you failed to address. 1) There's no filter for your fork oil, it's a good idea to dismantle them and clean up the damper rod/bushings and such real good while you're changing the oil, or at the very least flush them out real good. 3) If you've pulled the front wheel to get to the drain plugs, you're halfway to removing them, anyway. 3) First because it's easy; you don' thave to remove the wheel becasue it also requires to unbolt the caliper. To undo the drain bolt, just pull the shaft out. 1) Oil filter catches the "debris" resulting from the high rpm, high temp engine but it is unlikely for forks to create such temperatures and cycles to even come near the working conditions an engine part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Nexxt...? If you're feeling all spunky, there's still two points in my original post you failed to address. 1) There's no filter for your fork oil, it's a good idea to dismantle them and clean up the damper rod/bushings and such real good while you're changing the oil, or at the very least flush them out real good. 3) If you've pulled the front wheel to get to the drain plugs, you're halfway to removing them, anyway. 3) First because it's easy; you don' thave to remove the wheel becasue it also requires to unbolt the caliper. To undo the drain bolt, just pull the shaft out. 1) Oil filter catches the "debris" resulting from the high rpm, high temp engine but it is unlikely for forks to create such temperatures and cycles to even come near the working conditions an engine part. Fork oil does get REALLY nasty though... Engines have hydro-dynamic bearings while the engine is running, so you don't get actual metal-on-metal contact much, except the rings, but those are relitively minor wear items, seeing as how they are pretty hard and take ~200k miles to get worn out... The engine also has heat to bake off water.... Forks are out in the air, and don't have heat to bake off the water, so take that for what it's worth... They also consist of PTFE (teflon) coated brass bushings wearing against machined aluminum outter tubes, and chromed inner (upper) tubes. It's not like they just touch each other... Think about the stress on those bushings when you're HARD on the brakes and the forks are still soaking up good sized bumps, and think about how much pressure is on those bushings as they are wearing on the machined aluminum... At this point, you've got water in the fluid, and since the aluminum is harder than the brass bushing, once the teflon wears off of the brass, the brass will start rubbing off of and into the small holes in the aluminum, so they make a relitively friction and wear free surface, but not all of the particles that rub off of both sides stick to the other side, so they end up in the oil... So yes... moist oil with brass, teflon, and aluminum particles in it, while it's trying to lube brass, teflon, and aluminum surfaces... I don't think so... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 3) First because it's easy; you don' thave to remove the wheel becasue it also requires to unbolt the caliper. To undo the drain bolt, just pull the shaft out. 1) Oil filter catches the "debris" resulting from the high rpm, high temp engine but it is unlikely for forks to create such temperatures and cycles to even come near the working conditions an engine part. A) One usually comes before three. 1) Read Mike's comments above. I change my fork oil annually, and there's some nasty shit in there even after that short interval. 3) For the trouble of removing four bolts and loosening six more, I'll take the ease of servicing them off the bike. Like most short cuts, it's probably more frustrating working around the body work, dribbling fork oil all over the place, having the screen, tank and fairing in the way when pulling the caps, blah, blah, blah. I honestly believe it's ultimately less work to pull them of and slap 'em in a soft vice, but that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Involute Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Slightly off topic but I’m going for it anyway: When I replaced my Fork Seals a few months ago I noticed that the Fork Slider Bushings (?) were showing a fair amount of copper. More Teflon was worn than I was planning on or else I would have had some new Bushings in hand when I took everything apart. Assuming I can go another 40K on the bike before the Seals go again what risks am I taking by not having a nice set of Bushings in there? Will my oil just get nasty prematurely or can things get expensive on me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXBIRD Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 3) First because it's easy; you don' thave to remove the wheel becasue it also requires to unbolt the caliper. To undo the drain bolt, just pull the shaft out. 1) Oil filter catches the "debris" resulting from the high rpm, high temp engine but it is unlikely for forks to create such temperatures and cycles to even come near the working conditions an engine part. A) One usually comes before three. 1) Read Mike's comments above. I change my fork oil annually, and there's some nasty shit in there even after that short interval. 3) For the trouble of removing four bolts and loosening six more, I'll take the ease of servicing them off the bike. Like most short cuts, it's probably more frustrating working around the body work, dribbling fork oil all over the place, having the screen, tank and fairing in the way when pulling the caps, blah, blah, blah. I honestly believe it's ultimately less work to pull them of and slap 'em in a soft vice, but that's just me. Only if you would also share what's in between one and three, I didn't have to wonder any longer... What you are saying is not disputable. The way you and many others do is definetly a more through job without adding too much of a hassle. On the other hand, I don't get the argument of fork oil can NOT be changed without taking the forks off approach and trying to crucify who do service their forks mounted on the bike besides declaring them stupid and inept and know shit. There is more than one way skinnig a cat. By the way, you said there is no way you know of accuratley measuring the oil level, I furnished the answer. I have yet to see you saying "it's a good idea or bad idea". What do you think? Can the oil level be set accuratley while the forks mounted on the bike? (That's item two in between one and three.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Only if you would also share what's in between one and three, I didn't have to wonder any longer... What you are saying is not disputable. The way you and many others do is definetly a more through job without adding too much of a hassle. On the other hand, I don't get the argument of fork oil can NOT be changed without taking the forks off approach and trying to crucify who do service their forks mounted on the bike besides declaring them stupid and inept and know shit. There is more than one way skinnig a cat. I never said or even insinuated any of those things, nor have I seen others do so in this thread. I simply don't see a lot of effort saved by working on the forks mounted. My opinion, nothing more. By the way, you said there is no way you know of accuratley measuring the oil level, I furnished the answer. I have yet to see you saying "it's a good idea or bad idea". What do you think? Can the oil level be set accuratley while the forks mounted on the bike? (That's item two in between one and three.) Yes, it can. Like the rest of the "forks mounted" way of doing this, it looks to be a huge, unnecessary pain in the ass to me. My method? Forks upright, fill 'em with oil, use measured length of tube and Mity-Vac to suck out excess, done. Takes about ten seconds. You've got your way, I've got mine. The only thing I disagreed with you about initially was your removing the oilpan analogy. The best way to change the fork oil will include disassembling them. It seems silly to me to do that with them still mounted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXBIRD Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I was referring to the "wilbers" link above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 I have my bike hanging upside down in the garage right now draining all the fluids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I have my bike hanging upside down in the garage right now draining all the fluids. Sadly, even that's probably easier than reading the back and forth banter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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