firedlt Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Hi I was wondering if a person were going to upgrade the suspension of an XX, would it be better to do the front or rear. I found an ohlin setup up for the rear new around $745. + shipping or is there a better shock setup for the rear. I have an 03 XX and there is nothing really wrong with the shocks on it except there is no real adjustments to speak of. I would like to make it a little more responsive so I am looking for suggestions? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helvet Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 I would suggest springs, valves and oil on the front, and a new shock on the rear. In my opinion Hyperpro is the best, but quite expensive..... www.hyperpro.com I guess Öhlins is a biggen name in the USA, but here in Holland Hyperpro sells about 6 times more on Blackbirds...... They will introduce a new shock (cheaper and easier) very soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 The only thing I have against HyperPro is the lack of remote preload for the 'bird... The main reason I want an aftermarket shock is for the remote preload, because my wife doesn't weigh 95lbs and it's a big difference with her on the back with the preload set right for me... so I ended up just having too little sag by myself and too much sag with both of us, so neither are great, but neither suck either... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helvet Posted November 8, 2005 Share Posted November 8, 2005 Hyperpro does offer remote preload adjustment in their shocks. It is just not sold very often, because there is no need for that. Because of the fully progressive spring set-up, the difference in sag loaded or not, is less than in conventional springs. Also, because of the way they set up the bike (front lowered, rear raised) the bike is not so much affected by a little more sag. Hyperpro even advises against buying it, because in tis case it's not worth the extra money...... We were talking extensively about it when I took the Dutch Blackbird Owners Club to the Hyperpro factory last month. I don't know the pricing in the USA, but the new shock will be a lot cheaper (around $ 200,-- cheaper), and because of the new way it is designed, you can use the same shock on a lot of bikes. You can therefore probably take the shock with you if you decide to buy another (simular) bike. The chances it will fit your new bike (with possibly another spring) are very good. No other manufacturer can do this at this moment. Also no other manufacturer has the fully progressive spring (patented by Hyperpro). If they say they do, they are either lyers, or they buy the spring from Hyperpro (like Wilbers does on some models -not the one sold in the groupdeal-). For your information: Wilbers is one of the 3 German importers of Hyperpro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwflorence Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I heard from a guy that the new fireblade rear shock bolts straight into a blackbird. Dont know if its true or not though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 fair enough... Although, I have a bigger difference than most because I weigh 180 and my wife weighs in the 200 neighborhood... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXTi Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I'll add a plug for Penske rear shocks. I have one and love it. You might check Traxxion Dynamics or others for prices. They are usually a little less expensive than Ohlins and the quality is as good or better. I'm running Ohlins fork springs from Jaws. I'm very happy with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdxx Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 The suspension is lacking at both ends, but is worst at the front-you at least have SOME adjustability at the rear. I would recommend working on the front first. I went to heavier springs (1.05 Kg/mm) and 5W fork oil, keeping the stock shim stacks, in order to make the front end more compliant. If you like the results of your endeavours on the front, then move to the rear. I believe the cost/benefit ratio of going to an aftermarket rear shock makes the swap less worthwhile, so I intend to stick with the stock assembly, at least until the stock unit wears out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I would: 1. Front springs/fork oil 2. Rear shock 3. Send forks to Dan Kyle or Lindemann Engineering or Traxxion Dynamics to get reworked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gourmet Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I did the Ohlins rear shock and up front did the racetech valves for rebound and damping, new oil, didn't touch the springs. I weigh 180 lbs, mostly ride solo and I love the set up. It is night and day from stock. One thing the mechanic mentioned to me is that if every so often the swing arm linkage needs to be cleaned and lubed, says it makes a world of difference, anyone back this up? Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBXX Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 f4 i shock fits with a .5 inch shim , but it needs a new spring and revalving.. not a good option unless you do it yourself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firedlt Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 many opinions and all have merit I may as some suggest work on the front end first then check on Penske prices. I am also around 175-180 and only ride solo. But do some touring with the venture setup maybe another 30-45 lbs of gear with bag and tent. I went to the site at Hyperpro didn't seem to be very user friendly, not near as informational as Ohlins site or Penskes at Lindemans so just for that fact probably rule the Hyperpro out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 I went to the site at Hyperpro didn't seem to be very user friendly, not near as informational as Ohlins site or Penskes at Lindemans so just for that fact probably rule the Hyperpro out. +1 Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimXX Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 I bought Hyperpro front progressive springs and used 5 the wt oil they sent with it. I also put in the Hyperpro rear shock with hydraulic preload adjustment- mainly because I do sport touring solo and tour with my wife on the back with fully loaded bags plus tent and sleeping bags. The variance in weight goes from 200lbs solo to about 500lbs. I definitely needed an easy way to change preload on the rear. The front sag did not change much and so does not need preload. There is a lot of adjustment on the rear available with remote compression hi and low speed damping and rebound [which is easily reached at the bottom of the shock. When I ordered the shock, they asked me what my minimum and maximum weights would be and sent the proper progressive spring. BTW: the rear spring gave 1/2" more clearance on the back, and the front spring was about .4" longer and gave some preload. I did not lower the front even thoug it was suggested. I like the ride and the US distributer is near Chicago and is very informative, and helpful- they are repairing the leak in the hydraulic preload for free even though I have had the shock for over 2 years. I definitely reccommend this setup for the XX. If the Hyperpro WEB site is not helpful, phone Doug at 888-963-1212. He can answer any questions you have. TimXX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helvet Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 BTW: the rear spring gave 1/2" more clearance on the back, and the front spring was about .4" longer and gave some preload. I did not lower the front even thoug it was suggested.TimXX And I strongly recommend you lowering the front a little. It will make the bike go into corners a lot easier, without compromising stability. Try dropping it half an inch. With a little help from a friend it will take you all of ten minutes, and the difference is incredible. Also the braking capacity will be increased! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pug Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 TimXX and Helvet you might be able to answer me whether I can use a Hyperpro progressive spring on my WP shock. My shock has a remote preload as well, which requires a shorter than usual spring (I think my rear spring is 120mm instead of 150) in order to have enough room for the preload mechanism. However when I asked my 'friendly' shock shop about a Hyperpro spring, I was quoted that becaude of its special design (fully progressive) is longer and I would have to ditch the preload. Is that true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helvet Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Pug, I forwarded your question to the specialist of the Hyperpro factory. He (or I) will let you know a.s.a.p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSRbikes Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 I've talked a lot about that with Andy @ Metric Motorcycles and ATVs here in Houston. He's a fairly well known guy around the track for his suspension works. He told me a shock from (I think) CBR 900 will bolt right in. Apparently it is the same length as the stock Birds with the adjustments your looking for. Also on the plus side you can usually find one on Ebay for less that $50. Or so he says. Check'm out. Ask for yourself. http://www.metricmotorcycles.com/ p.s., I've heard he's wicked fast on the track too (from someone other than himself). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimXX Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 Hi Pug, If you phone the number I posted for Hyperpro and talk to Doug, you can find out if they have a spring with the length and lbs/in range that suits you. Perhaps the diameter is different so tell them that too. TimXX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bturd Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 try here mate http://www.ozblackbird.net/viewtopic.php?t...=asc&highlight= cheapest and best mods for suspension r jacking your ass end up with a shim(the bike drops into the corner quicker) and setting your riders sag, imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helvet Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 TimXX and Helvet you might be able to answer me whether I can use a Hyperpro progressive spring on my WP shock.My shock has a remote preload as well, which requires a shorter than usual spring (I think my rear spring is 120mm instead of 150) in order to have enough room for the preload mechanism. However when I asked my 'friendly' shock shop about a Hyperpro spring, I was quoted that becaude of its special design (fully progressive) is longer and I would have to ditch the preload. Is that true? This is the factory-answer: the shortest available spring for this shock is 140mm long. You just have to measure the room you get when you unload the shock fully. The 120mm you mention is probably the length under preload..... If you take it out, and measure it you will find out if it fits.... A small difference in lenght should not be a problem.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfarson Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Hi I was wondering if a person were going to upgrade the suspension of an XX, would it be better to do the front or rear. I found an ohlin setup up for the rear new around $745. + shipping or is there a better shock setup for the rear. I have an 03 XX and there is nothing really wrong with the shocks on it except there is no real adjustments to speak of. I would like to make it a little more responsive so I am looking for suggestions? thanks Upgraded the suspension for the '99 recently. Went with the Ohlins rear (Improvement immediately noticeable) and decided to go the whole way rebuilding the front with Race Tech Gold rebound and compression valves, and springs. But this bike was almost seven years old. If you have the $$$ consider upgrading both the front and rear, but I also think you would be fine with the Ohlins installation now, and go with an upgraded front in a couple of years. My '99 worked fine with the stock suspension components for many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Ive got to disagree... The general thinking on the board as a whole that I've found is that, the best bang for the buck, BY FAR is the front springs and lighter weight oil... The rear shock is actually OK, it's just not very adjustable, and the spring is OK unless you weigh a lot. The front end is sprung correctly for someone who weighs like 140lbs and WAY over-damped... At the VERY least, the first thing I'd do on the front would be change to a lighter oil (not all the way to 2.5W as some have suggested with Wilbers or Race-Tech springs, but more like 5W) and get the sag set correctly... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAXXER Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 BTW: the rear spring gave 1/2" more clearance on the back, and the front spring was about .4" longer and gave some preload. I did not lower the front even thoug it was suggested. TimXX And I strongly recommend you lowering the front a little. It will make the bike go into corners a lot easier, without compromising stability. Try dropping it half an inch. With a little help from a friend it will take you all of ten minutes, and the difference is incredible. Also the braking capacity will be increased! Will lowering the front help even if you haven't modified the suspension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryG Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 Ive got to disagree... The general thinking on the board as a whole that I've found is that, the best bang for the buck, BY FAR is the front springs and lighter weight oil... The rear shock is actually OK, it's just not very adjustable, and the spring is OK unless you weigh a lot. The front end is sprung correctly for someone who weighs like 140lbs and WAY over-damped... At the VERY least, the first thing I'd do on the front would be change to a lighter oil (not all the way to 2.5W as some have suggested with Wilbers or Race-Tech springs, but more like 5W) and get the sag set correctly...Mike +1 I'm about 225 w/gear right now. The new springs/oil made a nice difference......Bird feels better in the corners now and does not feel like a pogo stick on the rougher pavement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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