joe Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 Okay, let me get everyonoe up to date (2003 model): 1. Bike died - instrument lights and such came on when I turned the key to "on" but the bike turned over extremely slow and then not at all. 2. Had battery checked (original) and the technician said it was good, it just needed a charge. 3. Went through the factory manual troubleshooting procedure and ohm checked the stator in the alternator. Nothing was shorted to ground. When the bike was running, it delivered the specified voltage to the R/R circuit. 4. Ohm check the R/R and it checked out alright. The battery leakage current was good, as well. 5. Confused as to what the problem was so I jumped the bike from my truck and went on a nice long ride. At the end, the bike would start again (obviously the battery got re-charged). 6. Rode the bike several days later and it started fine everytime. Methinks the problem solved itself. 7. Today I parked the bike at Autozone for about 30 minutes in the sun and the thing would not turn over. This time I had to push start it and it cranked right up. So here's my question: if the problem is with my alternator, why did it push start? Obviously, the battery was dead (again) and couldn't have been the energy source. Or could the problem be the battery even though the technician said it checked good? Maybe it's my R/R, but if it's somehow preventing the battery from charging why does it allow the bike to run? So what do the experts think? Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman_40 Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 It sounds like the battery isn't holding a charge to me but there are lots better guys to give you a answer here than me. Do you have any electronics on the bike other than factory stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted September 29, 2005 Author Share Posted September 29, 2005 I did change the rear turn signals, but they've been on the bike since the odometer read about 400 miles. No other electronics. By the way, the bike has 13,400 miles on it. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZITPRO Posted September 29, 2005 Share Posted September 29, 2005 See if this is any help http://www.electrosport.com/Images/fault_finding.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted September 30, 2005 Author Share Posted September 30, 2005 The link doesn't seem to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmike Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 ... is to check the simplest (least expensive) stuff first. - all connections; tight, corrosion free, etc. - wiring; good integrity, no breaks/shorts, etc. - battery; full capacity charge, within specs with/without load - rectifier/regulator; run test protocols (shop manual) for values within specs - alternator; run test protocols (shop manual) etc. That's pretty much it. The closer to the top of the list you find and correct the problem, the less impact it has on your finances. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted September 30, 2005 Author Share Posted September 30, 2005 ... is to check the simplest (least expensive) stuff first.- all connections; tight, corrosion free, etc. - wiring; good integrity, no breaks/shorts, etc. - battery; full capacity charge, within specs with/without load - rectifier/regulator; run test protocols (shop manual) for values within specs - alternator; run test protocols (shop manual) etc. That's pretty much it. The closer to the top of the list you find and correct the problem, the less impact it has on your finances. 320 I agree. But like I stated, I did all of this. Everything looked fine according to the shop manual. But there still is a problem. With the symptoms I've given you, what do you think the problem is (and why if you can explain)? Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZITPRO Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 The link doesn't seem to work. you need to have adobe acorbat loaded. the reader is a free download. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaserkeywest Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Could be a starter problem, did you have lights etc when it didnt start last time? was the battery dead? or did the starter just refuse to turn? Could be bad Bendex in starter, sometimes it works.sometimes it doesnt. I know you said the battery leads were clean, I had a battery once that was clean and tight but a glaze had built up between the leads and battery post that caused a low voltage situation, I scraped the ends shiny and the battery posts with a file and varoom, started and charged. Six months later same thing, took leads off,filed and was fine again. Electrical makes me nuts too! But I agree that you make sure of the small stuff first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongHaul Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I would check everything everyone else said like the ground connections, the possible corrosion on the battery "posts" But also, I would charge the battery on a battery charger. I don't think the bikes alternator has enough power to fully charge a dead battery but only enough to maintain a reasonably charged battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmacza Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I have a similar problem with my '97 If I drive thru traffic and the temp rises enough to turn on the fan I have huge issues starting next morning. If I keep the temps down there is no problem. All items in the electrical chain have been checked by a mate who does auto-elec work professionally, as well as the local stealer. No fault found. fairly annoying - it happens at the nastiest times too.. like when you try start the bike in front of a crowd and end up pushing it :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beondwacko Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Sounds like a battery to me too. When they start to go bad , they can act unpredictable. Holds a charge one day , and not the next. Being that the battery is the cheapest part in the loop , I'd change that out first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted September 30, 2005 Author Share Posted September 30, 2005 Okay, looks like I'll be digging a little deeper into the battery. I'll check for corrosion on the battery leads this weekend. joe wrote:The link doesn't seem to work. you need to have adobe acorbat loaded. the reader is a free download. Correct. Apparently, unbeknownst to me my laptop doesn't have Acrobat reader properly installed. It worked fine from my desktop. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmike Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Joe, I had some folks, whom I hold in very high regard on vehicle electronic issues, review this thread... and the consensus was that the clue was in your statement that your tech tested the battery, pronounced it OK - but added that it needed a charge. By process of elimination, based upon the reported symptoms, the jury alleges that the battery is your prime suspect. It is most likely a comromised cell plate or two that, given the right circumstances, will give you periodic grief, while otherwise appearing to act normally. The good news is that this is a relatively easy and inexpensive fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted October 1, 2005 Author Share Posted October 1, 2005 Thanks for having your friends go over the thread ironmike. I decided to have the battery checked by another shop to double check the other technician's work. The verdict: mixed. This guy said he was "the man" when it comes to this stuff and he said the battery takes a charge, but fails under a load, which shouldn't happen. He then takes it to another fancier tester which gave a "green light" indication. He puts it back on the first tester and it still fails under a load. He didn't have a batter to sell me and told me that it might take months for one to come in (they come from overseas). So I get home to put the battery back in and I remember one of the previous posts about making sure the contacts are clean. I've looked at these contacts over and over again in the past several weeks and they look almost new to me. Maybe I'm used to seeing the type of corrosion damage you see on automobile battery contacts, but I would swear they are good. I go ahead and scrap them down anyway. I start with the negative post and scratch the surfaces (battery post and connector) with a flat head screwdriver and then brush them with a wire brush. I don't notice a big difference. I then proceed to the postive side and I notice this thin film coming off as I scrap it with the screwdriver. This film is not the type of corrosion I expected and I sure wouldn't have noticed it if I hadn't tried to clean them. I finish it with a wire brush and notice a difference in the luster. Now I need to go on a long ride so I can recharge the battery and see if it makes a difference. (I don't have a battery tender and don't really believe in them, but that's another thread...) If this doesn't work, I'll replace the battery. Ron Ayers lists one for about $52.00. I'll keep you posted. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman_40 Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 You'll find it nearly imposible to diag your charging system with a dead battery, put it on at charger before you put it in the bike. It can take quite a while to charge up the battery off the bikes charging system, not to mention it's hard on the system attempting to provide all the power to run the bike and charge the battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZITPRO Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Bump, have you figured this out yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 Sorry for the delay guys; I've been a little busy. I know it would be good to find out what the fix is for archive purposes. I'm going out on the bike today to see if she'll charge. I'll keep you posted. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 If you are riding every few days, ride or charge and make sure it starts.Remove the ground terminal from the battery while the bike is not used. Reconnect and try to start the bike. I have had automotive regulators, and the diodes in the altenators fail. This drags the battery down. Most testers did not find this failure. Batterys do intermittantly fail under load, but most fail completely soon after. A quick check after a short ride on my 01 origional battery. Switches off 12.6 vdc. Ignition on, FI lamp off, dip beam 12vdc. Starter, dropped to 9.85 vdc. Running, idle of 1200rpm, charged to 14.6vdc. You may want to look at the electrolite level. I have found that my Magna will over charge enough to lower the level below the plates. If you catch it soon enough, distilled water will give you a few more months. If you need to compare, I am near Tifton, Ga. And if I ever get this new chain staked correctly could ride down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted October 4, 2005 Author Share Posted October 4, 2005 Okay, I went on a 40 minute ride yesterday and she wouldn't start back up. Obviously, the battery refused to take a charge. In the past, when my bike first died a long ride was enough to re-charge the battery. Based on the consensus, I'm going to order a new battery today. If you are riding every few days, ride or charge and make sure it starts.Remove the ground terminal from the battery while the bike is not used. Reconnect and try to start the bike. I have had automotive regulators, and the diodes in the altenators fail. This drags the battery down. Most testers did not find this failure. Batterys do intermittantly fail under load, but most fail completely soon after.A quick check after a short ride on my 01 origional battery. Switches off 12.6 vdc. Ignition on, FI lamp off, dip beam 12vdc. Starter, dropped to 9.85 vdc. Running, idle of 1200rpm, charged to 14.6vdc. You may want to look at the electrolite level. I have found that my Magna will over charge enough to lower the level below the plates. If you catch it soon enough, distilled water will give you a few more months. If you need to compare, I am near Tifton, Ga. And if I ever get this new chain staked correctly could ride down. Yeah, I wondered if I'm having a problem with my R/R, but I'm going to replace the cheapest part first. As far as the distilled water, this model came with a maintenance free battery so I won't be able to do that. Thanks for the troublshooting results, though. I might compare them to mine if I go through the trouble diagnosis procedure another time. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted October 9, 2005 Author Share Posted October 9, 2005 Hey guys. Sorry it took me so long to give you an update - I've been a little busy and it's been raining. I replaced the battery and the bike now cranks. I took it out for a while and everything seems fine, but I won't really know if I fixed the problem until the upcoming weeks (I'll keep you posted). Incidentally, I was going to purchase the battery from Ron Ayers, who lists it for $63.00. When I called to see if it's a maintenance free battery, they told me that they don't actually sell it. Even though it's listed on their site, the order would've kicked back. Some issues with shipping hazardous chemicals and there not being a significant price difference in purchasing the part local. So I looked around, and the only place I could find the battery was at the stealership. $130.00 later, and I have a new battery - whew-hew!!! For archive purposes, the part was a YTZ12S battery made by Yausa, who happens to be the OEM. Thanks for the help, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmike Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 .. we were wondering how it was going... I'll bet you've cured it. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redxxrdr Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Excellent, At least Saturdayand Sunday have been good for riding. Back to work tomorrow. Daytona end of following week. Still available for comparisons but I bet you have it fixed. I have always wondered about these Battery Stores. I may check Valdosta for this part number next time I am there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted October 16, 2005 Author Share Posted October 16, 2005 Just to close this out, I've been riding my bike for a while now and have no signs of trouble. Looks like the new battery did the trick. Thanks for the help guys! Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texhoss Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 My 03 was acting like yours. The bike new sat in a crate for 2 years, and only had 3700 miles on it with one year in service. I didn't trust the battery. I bought a new battery the problem was solved. Texhoss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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