Red J Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 My bike has around 2500 miles on it, since I bought it. It has 27k total. I ran a can of Chevron Techron and a can of BG 44K through, just prior to my chain incident. I was due for an oilservice, and I like to at least run Techron prior to any oil change on any of my engines. My bird is jetted and piped. I didn't do either, so I don't know if the jetting is on or off. Seems to run fine, but I don't have any reference as to whether it's good or bad. I have the engine apart now, and wasn't planning to get into the cylinder head, but a sick curiosity and desire to replace the valve seals while I was in there has prompted me to pull it from together. Now I'm glad I did. The intakes are nasty as hell. I have been using 44K to try to clean off the carbon, but no dice. I have used Easy Off oven cleaner somewhat successfully, but it is slow going. If I wasn't averse to doing a valve job, I'd consider getting new valves, but I am, so I'm going to clean these. Dirty intake valve Cleaned intake valve While the second valve isn't as clean as I like, and it will get some more Easy Off, it's better. It has five treatments of Easy Off, with a wash and brushing. Exhaust valves are clean, the ports are a little carboned, but not bad. Not really asking for anything or telling much of a story here. Maybe to run your engine hard and run some fuel cleaner thru it every once and a while. Or maybe my jetting is off, and none of you have this going on inside your motor. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matey_peeps Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 ho-lee-shit. i've never seen intake valves that crudded up. whatever you're doing, STOP! i don't know about anything in gas that would crystallize like that, and i've never seen it in all the POS bikes i've rebuilt. i'd spend some time and money to make extra sure your carbs are jetted properly (dyno time, not seat-of-the-pants mixture setting) and just use regular gas without any additives. a drill with a brass wire wheel will take that shit off too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Looks like oil coming down the valve guides, and burning on the back side of the hot intake valve. Replacing the seals will stop it, but have the valve guides checked by a machine shop. FWIW, mine were almost perfectly clean :grin: Good thing you checked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Almost forgot... Want a set of stock valves? I have all of mine (intake & exhaust). Trade you for a set of block off plates? :poke: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted August 12, 2004 Author Share Posted August 12, 2004 ho-lee-shit. i've never seen intake valves that crudded up. whatever you're doing, STOP! i don't know about anything in gas that would crystallize like that, and i've never seen it in all the POS bikes i've rebuilt. i'd spend some time and money to make extra sure your carbs are jetted properly (dyno time, not seat-of-the-pants mixture setting) and just use regular gas without any additives. a drill with a brass wire wheel will take that shit off too. I used to work at Scholfield Honda (car dealer) and we'd see stuff like that on engines that were so carboned that they wouldn't run (valve held open by carbon). I've seen worse, but not on a usual basis. BG products (44K distributor) has run some tests where valves like that were cleaned up with 44K. I've never personally had an engine like this. I run 44k thru annually, and Techron thru before oil changes. My MR2 motor had some light carbon, but nothing that took more than a few minutes per valve to clean off. I will be verifying the jetting when the bike is back together. Dude who owned it before me was pretty conservative, but I can't see deposits like this from just that. Wire wheel on a drill press isn't affecting it much. Chemicals are doing the job the best, thus far. Appreciate the help, tho. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted August 12, 2004 Author Share Posted August 12, 2004 Looks like oil coming down the valve guides, and burning on the back side of the hot intake valve.Replacing the seals will stop it, but have the valve guides checked by a machine shop. FWIW, mine were almost perfectly clean :grin: Good thing you checked Valves are pretty tight. I don't know what to do but clean it up and try it again. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted August 12, 2004 Author Share Posted August 12, 2004 Almost forgot...Want a set of stock valves? I have all of mine (intake & exhaust). Trade you for a set of block off plates? :poke: Seats and valve faces are good, so I'm going to retain mine. I don't trust anyone local to do a good valve job. Plus, I'm now on a budget for this engine job, and the machine work will put me over. I'm starting to get more motivated to get this motherfucker put back together, it's starting to get nice here. High today is 79. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted August 12, 2004 Author Share Posted August 12, 2004 I'm actually stoked. I wish I would have dynoed this before teardown, so that I can see what deposits like this do to power. This will be like a free power upgrade. I thought it was fast before... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 At 27K miles the valve seals can't be bad so it's just carboned up gas from the carbs. Mine looked like that at last valve check, all were in spec. I started using techron injector cleaner after seeing that, but haven't been in since to see if it cleaned them off. I'll be at 50, 000 miles this winter, trying to decide if I'll check the valves or not bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted August 13, 2004 Author Share Posted August 13, 2004 i'd spend some time and money to make extra sure your carbs are jetted properly (dyno time, not seat-of-the-pants mixture setting) and just use regular gas without any additives. Matey, Know anyone around Kansas who is particularly proficient with carbs? I will want to nail this down good when I get it back together. Factory Pro shows a Lead Dog Essentials, in Topeka, as a CV tuner and dyno shop. I tried calling them, but they were not answering. I have a dynojet kit, and am willing to try a FP kit if they are more recommended. I guess I'm going to need some guidance. I'm also planning to go with an Akrapovic full system instead of my Two Brothers slipons. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matey_peeps Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 my brother (lives in topeka) is a mechanic and a GOD when it comes to working on & tuning bikes. he also has a buddy at the harley shop who runs the dyno. i'm going to see him tonight and i'll see what he has to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted August 14, 2004 Author Share Posted August 14, 2004 Sounds like you are the man to know. Much thanks. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86gn Posted August 14, 2004 Share Posted August 14, 2004 When I jetted mine it looked similar when I looked down the intake. I asked here about it at the time and it was the general consensus that it was normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azxx Posted August 14, 2004 Share Posted August 14, 2004 Mine look the same way at 28000 miles, my XX doesn't use a drop of oil, so it's not from oil and not running rich (dynotuned light tan exhaust), that leaves fuel deposits and K&N filter oil, anyone got any ideas for cleaning without pulling the head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted August 14, 2004 Author Share Posted August 14, 2004 I typically use BG 44K (the company is in Wichita, KS, but I have seen it in TX, so it may be available in AZ) or Techron. You should definitely be able to find Techron at an auto parts store. Both of those products are designed to lightly clean the top ends, so that there isn't massive carbon coming out, like you get when you Seafoam an engine. IMO, it's a better way of doing it, I don't want massive chunks of hard carbon sloughing off the valves and bouncing around in my combustion chambers. This may mean if you intend to get the valves really clean, you should be using multiple treatments. I also try to time these treatments prior to an oilchange. I heard from a chemist at Chevron that not all the Techron burns off, that some of it ends up in the oil. Either way, I use Techron a few tanks before every oil change in my other vehicles. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azxx Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Thsnk's for info I am going to do that before oil changes, the carbon seems to affect the idle when there is a high build up, it did more so on my GS1150ES air cooled, when I rebuilt it I was surprized how much intake valve carbon there was, taking it out on the road and blowing it out doesn't work, that's how I allways drove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northman Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 I wonder if this is just a problem with the carb'd bikes. I have my valves here, and the intakes are perfectly clean on the back side, with a light tan coating on the CC side. Sorry for my misdiagnosis earlier, but when I viewed the pics from work, the buildup looked to be much worse (shit browser, and I only get partial images). I know, I know, update the browser :roll: That's a hard thing to justify to my boss when we only use the computer as a parts catalog hosted within our server. I'm not supposed to have internet access on it, other than Mitchell On Demand, through a separate server that requires passwords to get anywhere else :wink: Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 I wonder if this is just a problem with the carb'd bikes.I have my valves here, and the intakes are perfectly clean on the back side, with a light tan coating on the CC side. Sorry for my misdiagnosis earlier, but when I viewed the pics from work, the buildup looked to be much worse (shit browser, and I only get partial images). I know, I know, update the browser :roll: That's a hard thing to justify to my boss when we only use the computer as a parts catalog hosted within our server. I'm not supposed to have internet access on it, other than Mitchell On Demand, through a separate server that requires passwords to get anywhere else :wink: Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled thread... No worries. You could have been right, but my seals were pretty tight. The photo is a little misleading, I'll admit. It's as bad as it looks, really. :grin: J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Could this build up be caused by the fomulation of the gas in your area. For instance, a mixture of MTBE or Ethanol? Reason I ask is because I have heard that the EGR valves in some cars are being carboned up by the formulation of some gasolenes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted August 17, 2004 Author Share Posted August 17, 2004 Could be. We don't get the crap gas that California gets, there is no smog in Kansas, nor are there emissions inspections, but that's not to say that our fuel is without MTBE or oxygenates. Be that as it may, I've had a few of my car motors apart, and none of them exhibit this amount of valve deposits. I'm hoping that it's a combo of the previous owner's aversion to full throttle, and carburetor jetting. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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