bpg

Yip - that appears to be it... I soldered together 2 male terminals to make a "bridge" between the Fuel cut-off relay's Brown and Black/White terminals at the connector, then taped it up and she works fine (albeit pump continues to run any time the key is on). Rode it to work today, the new stator and R1 R/R are keeping me at 13.4-13.6VDC, happy about that! Still have the headlight issue to look into (lowbeam works but no highbeam, I'll have to see if that relay is fried as well or if it's just a bad bulb - haven't had time yet to check) and I'm not getting juice to my tail light circuit for some reason... A LOT better then where I was a few days ago, just a couple gremlins to chase down yet!

One feature of my heated grips I like is that when the voltage drops below about 12.5V, they turn themselves off, so at idle, they're not on; as soon as the RPMs come up and the charge along with them, the grips turn back on. Kind of a cool feature. The grips are an OEM set for the ST1100, IIRC (the dealer installed them before I picked the bike up new in '03), with electronic temperature control and four heat levels. -Keith That's cool - any idea what it costs for a set-up like that, un-installed?

I think you're a little ahead of me - I was measuring at the ENGINE STOP relay, with relay in, across that relay's Red/White and Black/White wire. Showed 12+VDC with ignition off, 0VDC w/ ignition on. FWIW, I went ahead and checked the FUEL CUT relay across the Brown & Black/White terminals (w/ relay in) like you suggested, and got 0.002VDC at key-off, and 0.18VDC at key on... Bad/fried relay?? Only thing is, neither bridging the relay with a paper clip and disconnecting the relay didn't help (Based on the fuel diagram schematic, I'm still unclear on how these relays could allow power to reach the fuel pump if they're switched OFF w/ key on :icon_think: ) FWIW2 - I went ahead and pulled the R1 Reg/Rect, installed stock R/R including the black wire, same no fuel pump situation is present.. So that possibility is potentially eliminated. FWIW3 - again, feeding batt power directly to to the fuel pump allows the bike to start, idle, rev like normal, and the kill switch works like normal in this set-up... If I can't find a solution to this, the hillbilly in me is thinking why not wire in the fuel pump's power via a key-on circuit (using a relay)... The pump is on all the time when the engine is running anyway, anyone see any harm in this? I could also install a switch to turn it off for those times when I have ignition-on and the engine is not running. Thoughts? EDIT: latest & greatest - with everything else wired in normally, disconnecting the FUEL CUT-OFF relay and bridging the Brown to Black/white terminals together, the fuel pump works w/ key on! However, it stays on continuously... My thought is to order a new relay, and bridge the terminals in the meantime... Still don't know why it stays on...

It will, but use a relay wired to a key-on circuit so you don't accidentally leave them on and kill the battery. And try not to leave them on while idling - the bike is already undercharging at those RPMs, and drawing more amps sure doesn't help...

Well, as I stated in the other thread (referenced in post 1), I replaced the OEM R/R with an R1 R/R, so no, the B/W wire is not connected at the R/R (since the Yammie R/R only has terminals for the 3 yellow, one red and one green R/R wires. I was assured that cutting and taping up the B/W Reg/Rect wire, thereby "leaving it hanging" would cause no harm on an '02 Bird (not that I'm faulting the sources of that info!), but you have me thinkin... I was going to swap the old R/R back in anyway just in case, will definitely try it now... If this solves the fuel pump issue, I'm curious if I can even get the R1 R/R to work on my bike? FWIW the stock R/R actually tested out fine (as far as my limited testing ability showed), I just thought it'd be prudent to replace it after 64K miles, lots of heated gear/grip and electronic goodies, and the whole blown stator and bad battery episode... Thank you for your ideas, I'll check them out tomorrow AM and report promptly! EDIT - another idea: I'm thinking the B (B/W) wire that was left dangling by the R1 Reg/Rect swap needs to be either grounded, or fed juice, correct? Could I simply ground it, and if that doesn't work feed some 12VDC to it? Apologies in advance from a mechanic trying very hard to pose as an amateur electrician!

New question (somewhere in there!): Looking at the fuel system diagram on p 5-5 of the manual, the fuel pump gets power via the following route: 1) Battery (+) to 30A main fuse B, via Red/white wire, which continues to the ENGINE STOP RELAY. 2) If I am reading the schematic correctly, inside the ENGINE STOP RELAY the R/W wire switches "on" to a Black/white wire (when the relay is energized by the Red/orange wire from the Bank Angle sensor, and the black wire from the ignition switch). 3) The power then flows in the B/W wire to the FUEL CUT-OFF RELAY, 4) which provides power to the fuel pump. OK, if we back up to step 2: with engine stop relay connected, if I plug in the multimeter to the R/W and B/W terminals of the relay connector, I get battery voltage when the key is OFF and zero voltage when the key is ON. Isn't this backwards - i.e. do I just need to replace this relay? However, when I pulled the engine stop relay off and jumped the R/W to B/W terminal via a paper clip, still no fuel pump whirring...

Some interesting reading from the "other" forum: http://www.cbrxx.com/engine-airbox-exhaust...tarting-up.html sounds like that guy simply bypassed part of the wiring to get the pump to always run with key-on, which even I could do very easily (with a proper fuse and a switch, of course) to get a running bike again... Hoping it doesn't come to that in my case, but if so, how plausible is that for long term (my bike "only" has 64K miles - I'd like to double that before I even consider retiring her!)? Thanks for the great and quick responses, this forum is the best!!

No luck w/ the kill switch.. However, I did jump the fuel pump again and tried to start the bike, started up fine and revved just like normal, so I'm hoping/guessing the ECU wasn't fried Question re: checking the relays - From looking at the MAIN wiring schematic (not the fuel-specific one), which color wires need bridged to bypass the relays? I'm just a little nervous to be plugging wrong schtuff together right now, for obvious reasons... Beyond the relays, this electrical dummy isn't sure what else to check - all fuses in the little fuse box are good, and both 30A fuses (the one behind the battery and the one beside it on the starter relay) are good as well.

I'm still gaining a sense for the fueling schematic, but there appear to be 2 relays involved (these are the big relays lined up behind the battery): the FUEL CUT relay (middle-left) and the ENGINE STOP relay (middle-right). I pulled each off & powered them & they made a distinct "click" when power was applied (I'm better at mechanical than electrical, and the manual's method of "checking" relays wasn't too clear..) My thought is to just bridge (i.e. bypass) each relay to see if that allows power to the pump... Good idea?? :icon_think: Yes sir, fuel pump whirs away like a champ when jumped.. Permission to delve?

Here's the long version: http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=56237 Here's the summary: a few weeks ago bike wouldn't start - jumped it and it started and ran fine but low charging voltage. Replaced battery, stator tested bad. Replaced R/R and stator along w/ battery. R/R was replaced by Yammie R1 R/R. While slicing wiring harness for swapping the R1 R/R, the (-) battery cable accidentally touched the (-) battery terminal, resulted in spark show at my electrician pliers, and a blown main 30A fuse. Replaced fuse, finished swapping in R1 R/R, and turned key on, all lights/horn/sigs/etc. worked, but (and I didn't actually realize it until now) the fuel pump was not running at key-on. Still had to wait for a stator gasket so bike was left alone for a few days. Stator and gasket installed today, turned key on and noticed no fuel pump whir. The bike cranked over just fine but no engine firing. Every other electrical component (besides the exception below) works fine so far. Another weird thing - all lights look fine except for high beam - it flickered for a while then went out completely (this same thing happened right after installing the R1 R/R as well). FWIW, Highbeam IS on a modulator. Anyway, re: the fuel pump: - 0.2 VDC at fuel pump, so juice isn't making it that far. - All the fuel relays right behind the battery seem to switch over fine when jumped to battery. - Bank angle sensor tests out fine according to manual (can I try bypassing it just in case?) So, where are some of the fuses associated w/ the fuel pump actually located (guessing that one of these went during my prior spark show)? I'm heavily leaning toward a blown fuse vs bad ground, since this was an "all the sudden" incident, and the whole voltage surge when cutting the R/R wires.. Manual doesn't really show the fuel pump fuses too well, the wire from the pump goes straight into a giant harness... Could the R1 R/R be a part of the problem(s) (seeing as it and the stator are the only "major changes" to occur prior to this)? I left the black R/R wire ('02 Bird) taped up and disconnected from the R/R. Any other ideas?

edit: new issue - fuel pump: http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=56548

If it's anything over $500-800 to get a whole bike painted, I feel it's worth the effort to invest in a decent splatter-gun, learn how to use it, and do it yourself. But I'm a dying breed here in 'Murica (sigh).. Painters can charge sky-high prices because everyone's afraid to do it themselves - it isn't THAT bad, just very, very, very, very, very, very, very, extremely time-consuming, and you need to be very conscientious. It's even OK if you fook it up, with even more time and a lot more work you can even correct mistakes!

EXXcellent post! I'm waiting on a stator cover gasket (should have shown up today!) and decided to replace the front pads and bleed all the lines since I had the rear cowl already off anyway. Your instructions were great, thanks! FWIW, I got over 46K miles from a set of EBC HH sintered front pads - and they still had many thousands of miles left judging by the remaining thickness (I replaced them with another set of EBC HH's). Can't wait to put the damn new stator on & ride!!! This might be worthwhile posting in the reference section!

besides the usual wear items: a few CCTs, a few batteries, headlight bulbs, and now at 64K a stator (I run LOTS of electronic crap on the poor ol' girl!). Replaced the battery and swapped to an R1 R/R just in case they were adversely affected by the stator's demise, will keep the stock R/R just in case (seemed to test out fine!)

Will do, thanks! Waiting for a stator cover gasket :icon_doh: and will post pics and results when done!

Quick question - I'm putting the '01 R1 R/R on my '02 Bird - I know I have to solder the two red/white and 2 green wires together, and where those and the yellow wires go onto the R1 R/R. Also, I've seen where folks have just left the black R/R wire from the newer (injected) Bird harness un-connected when they pull the stock R/R (taped up and out of the way, of course) when installing the R1 R/R. Does this have any long-term effects, or just "slice the black wire off and forget it already"?

Stayed at Fontana Village a few times, splitting a cabin w/ riding friends. First time was great, second time they gave us a very small/crappy cabin that didn't meet the specs outlined on the website... No matter, no one was staying at the nice spacious newer cabin across the road and the door was unlocked, so we utilized its bathrooms to deal with our crowd better... Other than the crappy cabin last trip, Fontana is a good time, they have a decent bar, 2 restaurants, general store where you can get bulk beer cans/bottles, a lazy river & pool (VERY nice after a hot day of riding!), a gas station, etc... Oh yeah, and obviously, it's RIGHT on 28, minutes from the Gap and not far from the Cherohala...

Even after his passing he is still helping. This worked great! Timmmmaaaaay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Glad to see ya poppin' in man! Can I break out the infamous potato gun/beard burning incident video now???

FWIW, my '02 R/R mounts on the left side of the bike, I'm guessing the '01 is the same, maybe that's why it had more wire than the '00 has?? Man, now you have me thinking - I THINK I set the meter to read up to 200VAC when I checked the stator output, I'd feel like an idiot if I accidentally had the @%# thing at 20VAC maximum :icon_duh: :icon_think: Well regardless, the thing wasn't charging beyond 12.2V and the stator looked pretty fried, so I'm 99% certain it was the culprit...

No sweat - THere's a LOT of great info already on here about the stator and R/R, just wanted to compile some of it and add some data points based on my own experience.. Hopefully she's spinnin' by the end of the week when all my part come in!! Hey, you comin' to WV w/ us at the end of the month???

Update - ordered the stator from Rick's: http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/partsearch.php $140 shipped, supposed to be as good as OEM and significantly less expensive. Used the great guide from Hobi to pull the stator: http://www.cbr1100xx.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=53455 Not that it was that hard to pull the stator, but Hobi's instructions included some good nuggets such as not cutting the wire straps (I'd have knifed right through them had I not read his comments) Here's my old stator: You can see the bare wires and burned/crispy insulation in the last one: While I had the tail cowl & left panel off and the tank propped up, I decided to check all the connections and fuses that were accessible and give them some contact cleaner and then dielectric grease. Most looked great, but this big 'un (basically located above the gearbox and below the rear of the tank beside a similar smaller connection) looked pretty corroded: Here's where it was located: I also replaced the relay that feeds my fuse block for the heated grips, radar, heated jacket, GPS and dash voltmeter, just in case. When I get it back together I'll run it without said fuse block connected, then turn on each circuit at a time to check for anything strange, just in case. Hopefully she charges well over 13VDC again with the new stator!! FWIW, again, the R/R connectors looked great and the R/R (supposedly) checked out fine in my diagnosis. ordered an R1 R/R anyway - my current line of thought is to just swap in the R1 R/R, and have the original one under the tail as a spare...

Well, I ordered an R1 R/R just in case... If the new stator solves the charging problem, I'll just set up the R1 R/R so that it can be readily dropped in to replace the original should it ever fail - might even pre-run the wire and everything. FWIW, the connector between the stator and R/R looked great - clean, no signs of charring, burning or high heat. Of course, I still want to know how my stator died (I DO run heated gear/grips, GPS & radar, and very occasionally sat. radio, but I do have a voltmeter right on the dash to switch stuff off (or rev the bike!) if it charges below, say, 13VDC - which only happened at idle anyway, even with everything on at once)..

From the get-go: shut off my bike (2002 XX, 64K miles, has the big/finned R/R) after returning from work last week, re-started it a few minutes later to spray some lube on the chain up, no problem. About an hour later went to go on an evening jaunt, no go. Gave a faint, weak whir of the starter motor, then only dim dash lights. Jumped from another bike, started up fine but wouldn't climb above 12.5V no matter how high it was revved so I left it sit. The battery was about 3 YO, so I decided to start w/ a brand new, freshly charged battery (slow charged it at 1.5 amps all night first), and got the same results; voltage across batt. terminals stayed around 12V at all revs, did not fluctuate (FWIW, battery was at 13+ volts when charged, so obviously the bike was not charging the battery). Gotta be the stator and/or R/R, wishfully hoping for the latter... Now pardon me as I over-explain this, wanted to do so for the benefit of others that might have a similar situation in the future, and provide some more data points on the Bird's charging system issues. Ran through the diagnosis chart: http://www.cbr1100xx.org/files/reference/charging_diag.pdf Following that diagnosis with a digital multi-meter (DMM): - Had lower than 13.5VDC @ 2500 RPM (= 12.2VDC when I checked that time). Down 1 step. - R/R has 3 yellow, 2 red/white, 2 green and 1 black wire = 4 total colors. Down 1 step. - engine idling, black lead to batt. (+), red lead to to red/white R/R wire = 0.12VDC. Down 1 step. - engine idling, red lead to batt. (-), black lead to green R/R wire = 0.07 VDC. Down 1 step (to "B") - engine idling, Red lead to to batt (+) and black lead to black R/R wire = 0.52VDC Over 1 step??? OK, this concerned me a bit as more than 0.2VDC in the chart leads to a "bad connection from batt (+) through ignition switch to switched +12V supply inlet on R/R". I will open and clean out the ignition switch just in case, but I still wanted to check out the R/R and Stator independently (and glad I did!) - I didn't bother checking out stator resistance, I just wanted to know if it was putting out the juice or not. Engine running @ 5,000 RPM, I got the following readings across the 3 yellow stator wires: 8.8VAC, 12.2VAC, & 20.0VAC. = stator is at fault (which makes sense given that the bike was not charging enough, instead of overcharging) Knowing the stator is bad, then I checked the R/R: It took me a bit to find the "diode test function" on the meter, on this DMM it looks like it's in with the OHM selection range, that's what threw me. So assuming I'm using the meter the right way, here are the results: - Black lead to red R/R wire, red lead to all 3 yellow R/R wires in sequence = 0.5Volts, OK (spec was "around 0.5 V") - Red lead to green R/R wire, black lead to all 3 yellow R/R wires in sequence = 0.5 volts, OK (spec was "around 0.5 V") Based on this, should I grab an R1 R/R to install as well as the stator - just in case? Or is the '02 R/R robust enough to handle a few more years. Based on the R/R diagnosis, it seems like I caught the stator issue before it damaged the R/R - thoughts?

Just ordered two pairs of pads (EBC FA261HH) from Mike at University Motors (866-551-6478). About $61 shipped (told him I wuz from the Bird forum), even better than White Buffalo Racing!

+ whatever # we're up to on the solder - NEVER rely on anything else. It'll fail at the worst possible time... I like to use the brush-on electrical tape over the soldered joint, then either heat shrink or elec. tape if I have to (in tight working quarters)