Someone with knowledge lend a hand....

[DaveK]

The weights (the kind that run on belts) are just intimidating. It might be because the people using them are mini-Nik Clark looking people, plus they do more looking at themselves in the mirror and talking to other people than using the equipment.

Can someone give me an idea of maybe 3 or 5 BASIC machines to begin using, reps and sets. If you describe the machine or the part of the body it helps I am sure I can figure out which one you mean.

Right now all I do is 1 hour on the elliptical at level 12 and 1 hour on the treadmill at 3.8 mph at an 8 incline then finish with the Abdomen slider.

Anything would help.

Thanks

[ndivita]

The weights (the kind that run on belts) are just intimidating. It might be because the people using them are mini-Nik Clark looking people, plus they do more looking at themselves in the mirror and talking to other people than using the equipment.

Can someone give me an idea of maybe 3 or 5 BASIC machines to begin using, reps and sets. If you describe the machine or the part of the body it helps I am sure I can figure out which one you mean.

Right now all I do is 1 hour on the elliptical at level 12 and 1 hour on the treadmill at 3.8 mph at an 8 incline then finish with the Abdomen slider.

Anything would help.

Thanks

I don't know the particulars of your situation, but I would highly recommend that you look into buying a 36 lb kettle bell and learning how to use it. I would put kettle bell fitness training up against anything. The line between cardio and resistance training is erased in kettle bell training. There are tons of resources on the web (videos, workout routines etc.) about using this unconventional exercise regimen.

[DaveK]

Never even heard of a kettle bell. I'll check it out.

Thanks

[RodeRash]

All machines are different. What is important in the beginning, is to have someone (an employee of the health club) go through the machines with you and show you how to adjust them to your size, and also the proper body position to use while doing the exercise.

They should do that for free. Take notes, as this will not be a workout, only a "show and tell" They will have you use almost no weight. You are only learning the proper way to use the machine.

Base your workout on using machines that work as many body parts as possible. (ask the guy that is showing you the machines)

You don't need to isolate individual muscles.

If you want to lift almost every day, your best bet is to group your exercises together by body parts, so you can give your muscles two to three days rest. It is during these rest days where your muscles heal and get stronger.

For instance,

Do all your chest type exercizes on day 1. (These are "push" exercizes. You push the weight away from your body)

Do all your back type exercizes on day 2. (These are "pull" exercizes. You pull the weight towards you)

Do leg exercizes on day 3.

Pick a day to not do any lifting.

To make it simple, do three sets of every exercize. Rest about a minute between sets.

Start with a weight that you can do three sets of eight reps.

Next time you do your routine, do nine reps, then ten.

When you can do three sets of ten reps, add weight and start over at eight reps.

Start with fairly light weight. You need to learn how to do the exercizes properly.

If you are starting with weights too heavy, you will also start cheating on the exercizes. (breaking proper form just to move the weight)

You won't even know you are cheating.

Do each rep fairly slow. Use muscles not momentum. Pause at the top, return to the start position slowly.

Breath out as you lift, in as you return to the starting position. Don't make real stupid noises.

BTW: The mirrors are not there for you to admire your body. They are there so you can see that you are maintaining proper form.

[ndivita]

Never even heard of a kettle bell. I'll check it out.

Thanks

Kettle bells take a little getting used to, as they say, but they are so worth it. In 20 minutes of activity you get a workout unlike any you have ever had. (No I am not selling anything). It is simplicity itself once you get the hang of it. No impact, working groups of muscles all at once. One 16kg (35.2 lb) bell is all any grown man needs to start off with. Study some videos and have some fun. The two hand swing is the basic exercise, but there are many to pick from. It's kind of hard to explain so if you are at all interested, buy the 16kg bell and wade into it. You won't be sorry.

Check it out

[DaveK]

All machines are different. What is important in the beginning, is to have someone (an employee of the health club) go through the machines with you and show you how to adjust them to your size, and also the proper body position to use while doing the exercise.

They should do that for free. Take notes, as this will not be a workout, only a "show and tell" They will have you use almost no weight. You are only learning the proper way to use the machine.

Base your workout on using machines that work as many body parts as possible. (ask the guy that is showing you the machines)

You don't need to isolate individual muscles.

If you want to lift almost every day, your best bet is to group your exercises together by body parts, so you can give your muscles two to three days rest. It is during these rest days where your muscles heal and get stronger.

For instance,

Do all your chest type exercizes on day 1. (These are "push" exercizes. You push the weight away from your body)

Do all your back type exercizes on day 2. (These are "pull" exercizes. You pull the weight towards you)

Do leg exercizes on day 3.

Pick a day to not do any lifting.

To make it simple, do three sets of every exercize. Rest about a minute between sets.

Start with a weight that you can do three sets of eight reps.

Next time you do your routine, do nine reps, then ten.

When you can do three sets of ten reps, add weight and start over at eight reps.

Start with fairly light weight. You need to learn how to do the exercizes properly.

If you are starting with weights too heavy, you will also start cheating on the exercizes. (breaking proper form just to move the weight)

You won't even know you are cheating.

Do each rep fairly slow. Use muscles not momentum. Pause at the top, return to the start position slowly.

Breath out as you lift, in as you return to the starting position. Don't make real stupid noises.

BTW: The mirrors are not there for you to admire your body. They are there so you can see that you are maintaining proper form.

HUGE HELP !!! Thanks man. I appreciate you putting in the time.

[RichardCranium]

My 2 cents.

Machines almost never as good as free weights.

Compound movements are a better value for your time/effort than isolation movements.

A compound movement is an exercise that uses more than one muscle.

Example: Chinups vs arm curls. Chin ups use back, shoulders, biceps and abs somewhat. Arm curls use your biceps.

Another example is squats vs leg presses. Squats use quads, hams, glutes, lower back, upper back and minimally some others. Leg presses pretty much just hit quads and glutes some.

WORK your legs. They are by FAR the largest muscles in your body. Working them burns more cals than anything else. Also muscle burns fat. The more muscle you have the more fat you will burn 24hrs a day.

You can do "whole body" workouts every day if you minimize the number of exercises for a particular body part, do not work to completely failure and work each body part in a different way each day.

For example Ill use chest and legs:

Monday: Flat bench press, dead lift (hits glutes, quads, lower back upper back shoulders and your soul).

Tues: off

Wed: Front squat (focuses on quads), military press (minimal chest but does hit upper pecs some)

Thurs: Romanian dead lift (works hams), dips (primarily hits lower pecs)

Friday: off

Sat: Back squats (good overall leg development), incline bench (focuses on upper pecs)

That is part of my current workout. I try to hit the major muscle groups several times a week in different planes of movement when possible and I use different set/rep parameters to work different strength properties. You can try various set/rep schemes to see what you like and or what works for you. Stick with on for at least 3 or 4 weeks.

My recommendation is to keep it simple.

At a minimum do squats, flat bench and military presses a couple days a week. I generally encourage everyone to do chins and dead lifts as well. Nothing is more functional that picking heavy shit up off the floor.

If your gym only has machines dead lifts are probably out. Squats can be done on machines but its generally not as good of a plane of movement as with free weights.

Look the exercises up if you aren't familiar with them.

[RichardCranium]

Body part splits are a great way to do your workouts. Push pull or chest day, back day, leg day etc. are great ways to break up your workout.

I like to do "whole body" workouts at least I have been for quite some time now. Its not better or worse IMO just different. One advantage the "whole body" type workout has is that if you are doing a body part split and you miss a day you dont work whatever that muscle group was at all that week. With the "whole body" type workout you still have an opportunity to hit that body part usually.

On lifting slowly. I don't ever intentionally try to lift slowly. I actually try to accelerate the weight or lift explosively. When you are close to your max weight it does not look explosive by any means its simple the effort you are applying if that makes sense. A lot of the time the weight actually does move slowly. I'm just not thinking "lift slowly" I'm thinking "accelerate". And occasionally "don't die." The key is to not bounce at the bottom and use the muscles/tendons elasticity to help with the next rep. Its goes: lift "explosively", lower under control, pause for a second then repeat. Everyone does it their own way though. I just wanted to share my thoughts on that.

All machines are different. What is important in the beginning, is to have someone (an employee of the health club) go through the machines with you and show you how to adjust them to your size, and also the proper body position to use while doing the exercise.

They should do that for free. Take notes, as this will not be a workout, only a "show and tell" They will have you use almost no weight. You are only learning the proper way to use the machine.

Base your workout on using machines that work as many body parts as possible. (ask the guy that is showing you the machines)

You don't need to isolate individual muscles.

If you want to lift almost every day, your best bet is to group your exercises together by body parts, so you can give your muscles two to three days rest. It is during these rest days where your muscles heal and get stronger.

For instance,

Do all your chest type exercizes on day 1. (These are "push" exercizes. You push the weight away from your body)

Do all your back type exercizes on day 2. (These are "pull" exercizes. You pull the weight towards you)

Do leg exercizes on day 3.

Pick a day to not do any lifting.

To make it simple, do three sets of every exercize. Rest about a minute between sets.

Start with a weight that you can do three sets of eight reps.

Next time you do your routine, do nine reps, then ten.

When you can do three sets of ten reps, add weight and start over at eight reps.

Start with fairly light weight. You need to learn how to do the exercizes properly.

If you are starting with weights too heavy, you will also start cheating on the exercizes. (breaking proper form just to move the weight)

You won't even know you are cheating.

Do each rep fairly slow. Use muscles not momentum. Pause at the top, return to the start position slowly.

Breath out as you lift, in as you return to the starting position. Don't make real stupid noises.

BTW: The mirrors are not there for you to admire your body. They are there so you can see that you are maintaining proper form.

[BirdawgXX]

Dave, the fact that you're asking questions is good. It means that you want to have a positive effect of your body for the time invested in the gym. That's a good start. There's nothing more frustrating than going to the gym, flinging around weights and wasting your time and getting nothing out of your time spent there. Every time I thing of weight flinging, I think about a skinny kid the came into the gym every Tuesday and Thursday and just flung metal around for 30 minutes. He never got any stronger and never developed any strengthening technique. Just a waste of time & that's a shame!

The combined advice you've gotten from Rode Rash & Richard is very valuble information. Rode Rash's advice should be printed off and taped up in every gym in operation today. Very insightful information for EVERY begining individule in the work-out realm. I like Richard's advice for the "dare-to-be different" ideas and approach.

I personally use an approach to training that is rather associative of muscles because you're using them regardless of if you like it or not anyway. When you are working your chest you are working your tricep muscles too. Work both of those muscle groups on the same day. Also, working your back muscles, you are involuntarily working your bicep muscles. Work those in the same day. The 3rd day I work two totally disassociated muscle groups. These are my legs and my shoulders. Legs take a lot of time to train well and gain strength. Like Richard said, they're your largest group of muscles in your body. Shoulders are in some people a little tough to get strong and develope ( learn to do squats correctly, they're the best excercize out there for your legs!) . Concentrating these two muscle groups is nice because of the fact that they DON'T interact with each other.

Example:

Day 1 Chest & Triceps

Day 2 Back & Biceps

Day 3 Soulders & Legs

I also beleive in the fact that it's very important to work your core muscles. The trunk of the tree is the success of that tree standing for years and being rugged and healthy in all situations. For us that trunk of the tree is our Stomach & back muscles. Not buying the trunk of the tree bit? Alright, let's make our bodies motorcycles for a moment. Let's say you have a bike with a great front suspension (your upper body) and a fantastic rear suspension (your lower body). And in the middle you have a really shitty, weak frame ( your back & stomach muscles) That bike is gonna run great on the Dynomometer (bench) but in real life ( on the track) it's gonna TANK!

I use free weights because it's hard to cheat with them. Machines are great for "waking up your muscles" and getting your "form" down in your head. The mirrors on the walls in the gym let you see your form, as was mentioned, and also let you see if one of your limbs or your body is out of sync . The machines only work in a strict motion & form.

I also watch people at the gym and once in a while I'll pick up on a different excercize that I've never seen or used. It's good to not be too routine with your excercizes, to avoid the same ol' shit, not only for your memory but for your muscle memory too. Shock 'em a little bit every once in a while once you get into your routine of training for better rounded development, and to become stronger.

Also remember Dave, that a person who's in better shape can effectively ride their bike longer, and enjoy it along the way much more!

[Mekanix]

my .02.

I have a basic routine that I have used pretty much for 2 decades. When I make time for the gym I get good results and I feel good. It's easy to remember and I find ways to get creative with it.

Day 1: Pulling exercises and triceps.

Day 2: Pushing exercises and biceps.

Day 3: Squats.

I can do this 6 times a week or 3 times a week and get good results. It works for me, may not work for everyone or be the best for hardly anyone.

Pulling is mostly back exercises. I use seated cable rows and cable pull downs. Assisted pull ups machine is also a good one. My routine is 3-4 back exercises and 2 triceps exercises.

Pushing is mostly chest exercises. I use bench press, dumbell incline press and machine press (I don't know the particular machine. I sit in the chair, push bars down to my sides) or machine assist dips. 3-4 chest exercises. 2 biceps exercises, usually isolated curl and preacher curl. I throw in a few different curling techniques to mix it up.

Squats is just squats. I do 6-8 sets of 6-10 reps. I gradually move up and down in weight hitting maximum workout weight around the 4th or 5th set. I go until my legs are rubber. Technique is infinitely more important than the amount of weight you move. Have a personal trainer show you technique because it is really easy to get hurt doing squats incorrectly. I do deep squats, my upper leg almost parallel to the ground. To me, I see squats as the kitchen sink of leg routines and don't do anything else. Some people will disagree, but my legs are strong and don't look weird. I have good calf definition and good proportions.

My weight moving sets is 3-4 sets on everything but squats and the goal for all exercises is no less than 6 reps and no more than 10. If I can do more than 10, I increase the weight. If I can't do 5, I decrease the weight.

Muscle and fitness magazine is a great magazine for learning techniques. They show many many exercises every issue and you can study the technique and find the equipment in the gym they use and what they use it for, then apply it to your personal routine. This will give you a greater arsenal of techniques to use when you go to the gym and make your workouts more flexible so you can do things when equipment is down or being used by the chatter crew. Just keep at it and keep learning new stuff. Also listen to your body and it will tell you what it needs as you get better at it.

As an aside, I no longer do cardio, at all. I never believed the cardio bs and I always thought I was just burning off that hard earned muscle I just made. I feel better, am stronger and bigger without always being worn down and tired like I was when doing cardio. For me, cardio bad.

[Redbird]

Plenty of great advice here. The one thing not addressed is diet. If you're planning on putting on muscle mass or increasing your strength, what you eat and when you eat it is as important as how you workout.

You're wasting your time if you're not giving your body what it needs to recover and rebuild.

[Mekanix]

Conversely, it appears that Dave has figured out the diet for beginners. With education, he can tinker with his diet and get what he wants from his workouts.

Dave, you're a hot piece of ass that I am proud to have poured chile thru. Like all things in life, take what works for you and file all the rest. It may be useful in the future

[Redbird]

Conversely, it appears that Dave has figured out the diet for beginners. With education, he can tinker with his diet and get what he wants from his workouts.

True, he's worked wonders with losing the weight. I'm just pointing out two things- 1) dieting to lose weight and dieting for a strength training program are two different things, 2) ignoring the diet aspect of any program is a recipe for failure.

Too many guys hit the gym and do the work only to see minimal gains or plateau quickly because they think that just pushing the weight is enough.

[DaveK]

Just a quick update....

I have really taken all of the info in this thread and put it ALL to work for me. Tim's advice of eating properly for building muscles was one of the items I never really gave any though to. I think that is the mail reason why I was having negative results in the past. I'd begin using weights but not giving my body enough energy (muscle building food/protein) to actually allow the workout to work for me.

I am keeping it simple for now. Sometimes I think I am keeping it too simple but sticking to it. Here is what I am doing for now.

Monday - squats

Tuesday - cardio - 1 hour elliptical on level 14 and 1 hour treadmill on 2.5 MPH grade 10

Wednesday - flat bench and military presses

Thursday - same cardio as Tuesday

Friday - chins and dead lifts

Saturday - kettle bell workout and cardio (1/2 my regular routine)

Sunday - day off

I am doing VERY light weights and a ton of sets. I actually don't count....I just do as many reps as I can until I can't go anymore. (This OK?) I have changed my 3 meals a day to smaller more protein enriched 5 meals a day. Not sure if this is right....but it feels better. I don't eat at all after 6pm.

I think I was drinking too much water....if that's even possible.

I don't want to have big muscles....I just want to be tone'r and have good strength.

I am trying to stay away from protein powders and that stuff. I did research and found some real food products that I can incorporate in my 5 meals a day to give me almost as much protein as the powder. I need to ask my doctor about the powder. If it's OK to use. If it's even necessary.

As I move forward...I'll add a few more items to the workout but I think I have it covered as simple as I can. I need to keep it simple or I will never be able to keep doing it for the long haul.

Thanks VERY much for the help.

[MWL_XX]

No doubt there is plenty of good advice here.

Couple of things I would add are:

Do a light 15-20 minutes cardio everyday including your lifting days. Just to get warmed up and the heart pumping, this will help you get a better workout.

Stretch before, during and after, helps get the oxygen back to your muscles to help with the next set.

3sets of 8-10 reps for building muscle

5sets of 15-20 reps for toning muscle

Light weight for looking to tone= 15-20 reps, 20th rep should still be relatively easy or a better way of saying it would be not shaking/trembling on your way to muscle failure, on the 5th set.

Vitamin E is your friend when getting rid of lactic acid. We used to take it right after a heavy building session.

It's obvious that your committed to your health/fitness, congratulations with your continued success.

And lastly................. You lift things up and put them doowwwwwwnnnnnnn!

[DaveK]

I love that commercial too.

[Redbird]

I have changed my 3 meals a day to smaller more protein enriched 5 meals a day. Not sure if this is right....but it feels better. I don't eat at all after 6pm.

Eating smaller meals with more frequency is definitely the way to go. I'd recommend getting a last snack in before bed- low carb, low fat, high protein. Casein is best for this, as it's a "slow" protein and will keep working for you for hours after you go to sleep. Milk is high in casein protein. Your muscles do a lot of recovery while you sleep- give them what they need.

As far as protein powders and supplements, they're useful, but you should be getting as much as possible from "whole" foods. If you do go with a supplement, read the ingredients carefully and make informed choices.

[Mekanix]

Congratulations!

I like what the others have said. I would also add/compliment what they say by restating that if you want bigger muscle, you do fewer reps with more weight. Here's the thing... You aren't going to get massive muscles unless you are REALLY focused and tuned in to making them and only over a considerable amount of time. You can easily get an "athletic" build just doing good, heavy weight and a moderate routine.

Some things I changed (for me) to get the results I want and the thinking behind it.

Get enough rest. Let your muscles have time to build. Overtraining is actually easier to do if you don't have a lot of muscles than if you have more IMHO. The reason being the mindset that more = better. I find myself hitting a new level in a particular weight set if I can't break a wall when I take a week off from that particular exercise and then come back and hit it hard again and rest. It takes a week or so, but if I think I want to do an extra 5-10 pounds on something, I take a bit of time off and then hit it hard again with more time between hitting that group.

No cardio other than a quick warm up to get the blood pumping. I saw a 100# increase in the weight I could squat with no other change. My muscles got bigger (more mass) and the bigger muscles burn more calories than smaller muscles in a state of rest (more muscle mass = greater strength and stability = higher # of calories burned day to day)

Make dietary protein a bigger percentage of calories consumed. Then lots of plants. No worries about oil/fat/peanut (and other) butter. Minimize grain intake. Lots of lean chicken, turkey and ham and cottage cheese (whey protein). I count calories and track intake and keep my calories at about 3000, for now. I try to keep my carb intake at less than 30% but fail pretty consistently. Carbs sneak in to my diet in the weirdest places.

If you are thinking you want to get BIG, I will tell you what I told my gf. Take it slow. If you are really pushing yourself HARD 3-5 times a week and your diet is in tune and you are getting big gains, remember that your tendons and connective tissues grow at a slower rate than muscles. You can easily injure a connective tissue and have a setback.

This works for me, this is what my body likes. Listen to your body over everything else. It will tell you what to do.

Good luck.

[RichardCranium]

Lot of good advice here. I agree you need to lift heavy. Heavy is a sort of relative term but you are either building muscle or you aren't. I doubt you are trying to get big...I assume just more muscular and fit. If you want to put on some muscle you must lift heavy. Very light weights and high reps is basically cardio.

There are many different set rep schemes you can use and you can mull them over until you are insane.

My understanding of rep ranges is more or less:

1 to 5 reps per set = pure strength (but not so much of an increase in muscle size)

5 to 10 reps per set = hypertrophy (increased muscle size and more strength)

11 + reps per set = endurance and possibly some increase in muscle size.

Thats a pretty rough and overlapping rule of thumb. I have done sets of 3 (10x3 or 6x3 for example) and my strength went up but after I changed up I realized trying to do say a 12 rep set would have me huffing and puffing because my work capacity was low. If you do high rep sets all the time you will likely not increase your strength or build much muscle but you will have decent work capacity with the weight you can lift. Thats why I mix it up and then change my workouts up from time to time.

My favorite set/rep schemes are 6x3, 5x5, 4x8 and 3x12 to help keep my work capacity up.

I hate when people recommend books but I liked Muscle Revolution by Chad Waterbury. He is the reason for my sort of different approach to lifting. He makes a lot of sense and talks about the science behind why he thinks what he thinks.

In the end doing anything is better than doing nothing. Experiment and see what works best for you. Definitely start ramping up the weight though. Keep your form good but start ramping up until you find a weight that challenges you with lower reps. I don't believe in working to failure all the time but its good to find where that point is from time to time so that you know you are pushing yourself.

Also your simple workout is really a good one IMO. Its some of the most important lifts and the best bang for your training minutes. I would recommend adding some sort of a row (NOT upright rows) but either a seated row, bent over row or one armed row so that you balance out the pressing.

[RodeRash]

For What It's Worth: I do a ten minute warm up on a Concept II rowing machine before starting my routine.

You get a lot more muscles involved with a rowing machine than you do if you run or ride a bike.

[DaveK]

Tonight @ 6pm I have my first meeting with my personal trainer.

I bought 20 sessions.

I'll report back after it's over.

Doing it myself wasn't working for me. So....I decided that even though it $70/session it's an important expense for my health...mental & physical.

[Mekanix]

1. Listen to your trainer's words as gospel.

2. Eventually, use what you learn to listen to your body. What worked for you now may not be right for you in 6 months. By then yo will be in better tune with what your body needs. You may then decide to hire a trainer for individual sessions to determine how best to work on what you want to do next and get advice to if it's a good idea and how to get there. In the end, there is no perfect routine all the time.

3. Best of luck!

PS When I got serious about 20 years ago, I hired a personal trainer as well and spent $200 I think. His basic routine is what I still use today, just different exercises here and there.

[DaveK]

Sorry....I was in NO condition to type when I got home. I was lucky my wife decided to go to the gym with me because I wouldn't have been able to drive home...mentally or physically.

He recommended a whole bunch of natural supplements.

We did:

Incline bench 3 sets of 10

Flat bench 3 sets of 10

Decline 3 sets of 10

Lats 3 sets of 10

Abs and Traps - a whole bunch of stuff.

I was light headed and nauseous when I got home. Drank my protien drink, had a chicken breast with a small salad and I was sleeping @ 7:45.

[Redbird]

Keep it up, Dave. A few weeks and that workout will energize you instead of knocking you out.

Oh, and if you're sore today, tomorrow will probably be worse.

[DaveK]

Thanks Tim...I appreciate it.

He also recommended:

Mega Red Fish Oil

Whey Protein EAS

CLA - Tonalin

BCAA

Glutamine

Do I need this stuff?