Good general M/C info site.

[Pete in PA]

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/

LOTS of general bike knowledge. Oil, filters. suspension set up etc.

ALL WITH K&N AIR FILTERS READ THIS.

http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Filters.h...html#AirFilters

[2equis]

Thanks Pete - Good info,

I clicked on a bunch of the links and started reading about the Purolator Pure Oil filters (they even make a filter for the XX - part no. ML-16817). Whadda ya think? I know Purolator makes good products but this article smells of a "snake oil sales pitch" Has anyone here ever used them? I've been using the OEM oil filter and AMSoil w/o any issues. However, I've never sent any oil out for analysis either.

[Pete in PA]

I've used the ML-16817, but it's not really a Purolator. It's made in Singapore.

I'm going to try the Pure One PL 14610 next. It's a little longer and might interfere with the headers though.

[blackhawkxx]

Here's the letter from Fram:

Mr. Lawrence:

Thank you for the e-mail regarding the construction and micron rating of Fram oil filters. We welcome the opportunity to be of service.

Fram filters meet the requirements of the original equipment filter designed for a specific engine. Our filter applications follow the recommendations of the vehicle manufacturer for form, fit, and function. Fram filters follow internally targeted design guidelines to meet the functional requirements of a given filter. Fram filters are tested against SAE standards to ensure uniform product quality and performance. Material construction will vary between filter manufacturers. We believe Fram filters have a proven record for providing reliability, superior quality, and engine protection over the service life of the filter.

A common misunderstanding among our customers concerns the end disks in the oil filter. These disks hold the glue which keeps the pleated media formed into a rigid circular tube. The glue-to-media interface is also one of the sealing surfaces keeping dirty and filtered oil from mixing. One common myth is that only metal end disks can adequately seal and have enough strength in the hot oil environment. For this reason, Fram filters are criticized for having cardboard end disks. The issue is, the material doing the sealing is the adhesive, regardless of the material of the end disk. What matters is the strength of the adhesive, its proper curing, the thoroughness with which it can be applied to the disk, and its adhesion to the disk. By using cardboard end disks, Fram filter engineers are able to specify adhesives with excellent strength and sealing properties, and strong adhesion to the disk (intuitively, it is easy to make a strong glue bond with cardboard). Moreover, just as paper media itself is able to withstand the hot oil environment, so too is the end disk designed of fibers engineered to be strong and inert in hot oil. The thickness and strength of the adhesive also stiffens the end disk considerably.

Fram engineers perform hot oil circulation tests on the filter element and also regularly cut open used filters to examine how well they have withstood the rigors of actual use on a vehicle. For over 38 years, Fram end disks have stood up to hot oil and their adhesives have sealed off the dirty oil.

Fram's latest entry in the automotive oil filter market is the X2 Extended Guard oil filter. The Fram X2 Extended Guard filter uses a filter media that includes a reinforced mesh screen for maximum pleat integrity, durability, and oil flow. The inclusion of the metal screen increased the glue tolerances or thickness required for proper adhesion to the end disk. The original X2 prototype development specified the cardboard end disk technology. However, the increased amount of adhesive required to join the cardboard end disk to the screened media resulted in prototypes that did not conform to design standards. We had no choice but to use a steel end disk with the X2 filter media to provide uniform Extended Guard oil filter construction.

Fram automotive oil filters, including the standard Extra Guard and premium X2 Extended Guard filters, have a micron rating of 10 micron.

[Pete in PA]

So Blackhawkxx, do you use Fram or not?

I used to, but a couple of years ago I saw one of those autopsied filter sites and stopped.

[blackhawkxx]

So Blackhawkxx, do you use Fram or not?

Yeap. The letter seems to explain it well. I have never know anyone who lost a motor to cardboard :!: Beside that, I work for a cardboard manufacturer so the brown stuff don't scare me. :grin:

[bartonmd]

Blackhawkxx, I didn't lose a motor to cardboard, but I did lose 2 hydrolic valve adjustors in my '85 Nighthawk S to it. They both had about 1/8-3/32" lash instead of about 1/32, which they were supposed to have (this is all without oil in them). THere is a special tool that you use to clean/prime them in kerosene. It pushes down on the check ball and spring at the bottom (both VERY small) and as you pump the whole assy, it pumps kerosene around and through the check valve and allthe small openings inside... I made sure everything was clean that I was using and that the kerosene was in a clean jug from the gas station to my house. Everything was clean until I started pumping the first tappet that I took out (only took 2 out, because they were the ones that were ticking pretty loud, I knew it because there was a bunch of lash in the finger followers before I took the cams out.). As I was pumping it, I saw this small piece of something brown slowly sink to the bottom. I took it out and looked at it under a mag. glass, and holy shit... it looked the same as the Fram filter I had just cut open (when I saw the brown piece, and reading waht I had read about Fram stuff, and knowing that when I got the bike, it had one on it. My friend had just bought a used car and it came with a Fram on it, so we of course got it the hell off of there and it was sitting in my change tray, so I cut it apart). The other tappet that wasn't quite as bad as the first had a small piece of cardboard come out of it. I know it wasn't from the bleader tool either becaue it was just a metal rod coming out of the middle of what looked like a closed-end socket. This is just my experience with them... The one that did that may have just been a fluke, but I refuse to give my money to a company that cost me 2 $50 tappets and slightly bent 2 finger followers of mine.

[blackhawkxx]

Alright, alright. I just ordered six Honda filters from Ron Ayers.