BarryG Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 My chain keeps loosening up big time…right after I tighten it. Not the chain.....it's got maybe 5K miles on it and is lubed every 500. There's an extra washer the mech put on the rear axle nut like a year ago when I had a rear tire put on……..I forgot why. But that must have something to do with it. I think I have 2 washers below the nut. Is there supposed to be a washer there at all? I can't remember. Thx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptxyz Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 have you noticed if the rear axle is moving? perhaps make a mark with a sharpie to see if the axle's really moving or the chain's loosening. should only be 1 washer outside the swingarm on each side. a too tight chain will quickly get longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanix Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I don't know if this will help or not but, whenever I made chain adjustments, I snugged down the adjusters after I locked down the axle. I read somewhere that it was cheap insurance to make sure the wheel could not move forward. Given the power the XX makes, I figured it made sense. I never had the adjustment change on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 On my rear axle, I have two washers...one on each side. One behind the head of the bolt. One behind the nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I don't know if this will help or not but, whenever I made chain adjustments, I snugged down the adjusters after I locked down the axle. I read somewhere that it was cheap insurance to make sure the wheel could not move forward. Given the power the XX makes, I figured it made sense. I never had the adjustment change on me. +1, that method has even been tested by a skeptic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryG Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Thanks for the replies. I did snug down the adjusters afterward. I think that 2nd washer on the nut is causing the problem somehow. Checked the indicators on both sides….both just before the 4th marker after I slightly tightend....it was far from too tight. After 18 mile ride to work, chain was considerably looser…bordering on floppy…..indicators were now just past the 3rd marker…..so they definitely moved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp11XX Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Washers sound okay and correct by described placement. My thought and fear would be that the internal sleeve/bearing spacer was eliminated/forgotten during the tire change and wheel replacement. That would prevent an adjustment from holding and allow the wheel to slip forward under load. Easy to do in a rush too. I had this happen on my 900 about a decade or so ago. Shop called me in a panic the next day when the tech found the spacer lying beside the tire machine and knew I was the last one in the shop for a tire change the day before. No harm, no foul....shizzle happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Thanks for the replies. I did snug down the adjusters afterward. I think that 2nd washer on the nut is causing the problem somehow. Checked the indicators on both sides….both just before the 4th marker after I slightly tightend....it was far from too tight. After 18 mile ride to work, chain was considerably looser…bordering on floppy…..indicators were now just past the 3rd marker…..so they definitely moved. To be clear, the adjusters need to be snugged outward (clockwise), not turned in. Turning them in will just make it worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryG Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Washers sound okay and correct by described placement. My thought and fear would be that the internal sleeve/bearing spacer was eliminated/forgotten during the tire change and wheel replacement. That would prevent an adjustment from holding and allow the wheel to slip forward under load. Easy to do in a rush too. I had this happen on my 900 about a decade or so ago. Shop called me in a panic the next day when the tech found the spacer lying beside the tire machine and knew I was the last one in the shop for a tire change the day before. No harm, no foul....shizzle happens. I'll check that but pretty sure it's there. Without that spacer, I don't even think the axle nut would tighten.....or maybe it would. To be clear, the adjusters need to be snugged outward (clockwise), not turned in. Turning them in will just make it worse. Yup tightened them clockwise....but I'll double check. Just read that old post from Squareman with the chain. Classic stuff, Redbird!! And all still relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryG Posted November 5, 2012 Author Share Posted November 5, 2012 Ok, I tightened my chain again. Torqued to 60lb, tightened fasteners by hand. Rode the bike 20 miles. Checked chain. Loose again. Chain side indicator mark moved some as a result. Other indicator did not. Both fasteners were still tight. I do remember my mechanic saying my axle was stripped some once by me accidentally overtightening it (don't ask)....but it tightened up fine for me. I don't know...I'm going to take the axle out and see if any stripped threads..etc. If so, I'll just order another one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanix Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I honestly don't know how the adjusters could have moved if the bolts were tightened down. They are a physical barrier that, by their nature, would not allow the adjusters to move forward. Now I am confused... If I remember correctly I would torque them suckers down to about 25-30 lbs after locking down the nut. The bolts would have to sink into the swingarm for the adjusters to move forward. PS. I would also search ebay or bikebandit.com and get a new axle shaft if it was stripped. Too much power to be dealing with marginal parts. http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycl...151392#sch97126 shows a new axle for $65. also http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycl...51392#sch101123 shows the swingarm exploded view. You can see if the adjuster bolt is torqued down the adjuster can't possibly move forward. Once the axle is torqued down, tighten those bolts good and tight (~30lb-ft). Should have no other issues. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp11XX Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Ok, I tightened my chain again. Torqued to 60lb, tightened fasteners by hand. Rode the bike 20 miles. Checked chain. Loose again. Chain side indicator mark moved some as a result. Other indicator did not. Both fasteners were still tight. I do remember my mechanic saying my axle was stripped some once by me accidentally overtightening it (don't ask)....but it tightened up fine for me. I don't know...I'm going to take the axle out and see if any stripped threads..etc. If so, I'll just order another one. Rear axle torque is supposed to be 68#'s IIRC. Also check internal spacers for correct placement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryG Posted November 5, 2012 Author Share Posted November 5, 2012 I honestly don't know how the adjusters could have moved if the bolts were tightened down. They are a physical barrier that, by their nature, would not allow the adjusters to move forward. Now I am confused... If I remember correctly I would torque them suckers down to about 25-30 lbs after locking down the nut. The bolts would have to sink into the swingarm for the adjusters to move forward. PS. I would also search ebay or bikebandit.com and get a new axle shaft if it was stripped. Too much power to be dealing with marginal parts. http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycl...151392#sch97126 shows a new axle for $65. also http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycl...51392#sch101123 shows the swingarm exploded view. You can see if the adjuster bolt is torqued down the adjuster can't possibly move forward. Once the axle is torqued down, tighten those bolts good and tight (~30lb-ft). Should have no other issues. Good luck! I don't get it either. I will say this if after torqueing the axle I tighten the bolts down beyond hand tightening (turning clockwise)......my chain will loosen on the spot. And yes I meant torque'd to 69, not 60. Thanks for the links for the axle. I just ordered a new one with new new nuts/washers. For $102 shipped, rather just replace the parts and go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiXXation Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 The adjuster bolts should be tightened in a counter-clockwise direction to put the tension against the pull of the chain. Clockwise will push the adjuster brackets into the pull of the chain, loosening it. Counter-clockwise will put the tension on the adjuster bolts' shoulder just inside the adjuster bracket and put slack between the outside of the adjuster bracket and the snap-ring on the adjuster bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I'm puzzled as well. My chain adjusters seem to have a self-locking quality. My last bike didn't have it. I had a system where I loosened the nut keeping the adjuster snug and then turned the bolt. Tightening afterward. My Bird has this bolt with a c-clip on it (sorry, no photo to post), and there's a natural tension on the bolt at all times. As long as the axle is tightened down, I've never had a slack issue unless something unusual (like a lowside or hitting a curb) happened to introduce significant unnatural force to the rear wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALCXX Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Barry did you tighten the adjuster in a counter-clockwise rotation? This is important! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryG Posted November 24, 2012 Author Share Posted November 24, 2012 Yeah was wrong about the adjusters......counter-clockwise is correct. Still the chained loosened. Took it to my mechanic. He said from once overtightening my axle (or twice), I was crushing the inner wheel spacer some and the axle wasn't locking all the way even though it was threading. He noticed how easy it was to loosen it after I torqued it to spec. He added a 2nd washer beneath the nut and this time it caught and tightened up right. The chain hasn't loosened at all after 100 miles or so. He said if it does, a new bearing and spacer will do the trick. But I'm good for now. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhubarbray Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 Just my opinion but I`d be replacing the spacer and bearings anyway. If you`ve torqued the nut enough to bottom out the threads on the axle and compress the spacer then the bearings will have had some serious side load on them. And now that you`re able to torque up the axle to the correct torque you`ve reintroduced the side load. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryG Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 Just my opinion but I`d be replacing the spacer and bearings anyway. If you`ve torqued the nut enough to bottom out the threads on the axle and compress the spacer then the bearings will have had some serious side load on them. And now that you`re able to torque up the axle to the correct torque you`ve reintroduced the side load. Ray I'll probably do that soon. Good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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