cbrxxquad Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Ok I have a trip starting the end of next week for a week on the bike and then I can tear it down and make a few. Need to order a set of bearings too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaygermeister Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Ok I have a trip starting the end of next week wait wait wait?? what?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEye Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 Here's another question: what's the difference between the $120 bearing linked in Skull's post here and a regular 35x47x7 sealed ball bearing that costs $5-$10? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEye Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 I've talked to a "bearing guy" and he assures me there is nothing special about the MRC bearing except the price . . . and that is "special" in a Special Olympics kind of way. So I will be going with the bearings instead of the adapter, since the bearing option now costs 1/10th what I thought it would, and I won't have to keep waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexxus Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I've talked to a "bearing guy" and he assures me there is nothing special about the MRC bearing except the price . . . and that is "special" in a Special Olympics kind of way. So I will be going with the bearings instead of the adapter, since the bearing option now costs 1/10th what I thought it would, and I won't have to keep waiting. "WOW" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I've talked to a "bearing guy" and he assures me there is nothing special about the MRC bearing except the price . . . and that is "special" in a Special Olympics kind of way. So I will be going with the bearings instead of the adapter, since the bearing option now costs 1/10th what I thought it would, and I won't have to keep waiting. You were third in line anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 the one you have to have does not exist in a taper bearing. The one listed is a small crossection ball bearing to fit the large zx stem and the small xx neck. But your bearing guy does he have a manufacturer name and number and cost for others to get theirs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEye Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 VXB Bearings Here's one source. Putting the bearing size into google will find many others, including a few dozen on ebay. According to the guy I talked to, 80% of the world's bearing steel comes from one manufacturer and most bearings of the same size and type are identical, depending on manufacturer tolerances. He said that if the last 3 digits in the bearing number are the same (807 in this case) and the dimensions are the same, it's pretty much the same bearing. The MRC bearing might very well be a bit higher in quality but in this situation where it will see little load and no rpms at all, it makes no difference. Also, take a look at the bottom of the VXB page for some exotic bearings in the same size -- their ABEC-7 ceramic bearings are still cheaper than the plain steel MRC. No point in putting something like that in a steering stem but maybe some benefits for wheel bearings, lower rolling resistance and teeny little reduction in unsprung weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 looks good, now to go kick my bearing supplier in the nuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEye Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 Catalog prices can be pretty insane when the industry isn't feeling a lot of competition from the internet. Even with the discounts we get at work for wholesale and high volume, some of the prices we pay for stuff make me ill. If only the purchaser was ambitious enough to actually hunt for good values instead of settling for the convenience of getting as much stuff through as few suppliers as possible . . . Anyway, one of the ebay vendors for this particular bearing is called punchbuggy -- seems like we share a part with the old vee-dub So there's one thing that'll always be in stock somewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEye Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 The bearing plot thickens . . . here's some more input on that 6807 bearing: those look like roller bearings meant to go in wheels. Not a bearing meant to handle a load in a perpendicular manner. The correct bearing would look like this when looked at in profile: ^ - race - steering neck O - bearing - steering neck v - race - steering neck If this were the upper bearing set, then the lower race would be pressed into the frame, while the bearings would either sit loose or be held by a cheap plastic cage, and the upper race would sit loose on top of the bearings and be clamped into place by the adjuster nuts under the upper triple. The bearings the OP is looking at buying are like this in profile [O] - steering neck (same height as above, but asci pics suck.) Race - bearing - race. This means the bearings will be axial or "side loaded" the entire time there is force on them. Considering the fact that every bump will transfer force from the steering stem into the inner race, then the bearings and finally the outer race I don't think they will last very long. You're going to be hammering the shit out of those retainers with every bump or wheelie. If you want a perfect example, those are wheel bearings, what do you do after you've hammered out a wheel bearing? You throw it out, I don't care what kind of condition you think they were in before you've likely galled the retainers by pounding on the inner race to remove it. And every bump you hit is doing exactly that. Plainly put, I think you've picked the wrong bearing. So, Stan (or whoever has his ZXXX now) and Skull: I'm guessing you haven't noticed any serious deterioration in the bearings. Can you give me a rough idea of the mileage you've put on since the swap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 The bottom taper bearing takes all the loads which are all vert. and the top only needs to center horz loads, and the stem bearings have 13,000 miles on them. I only load the top bearings with the stem nut enough to take all the clearance out so they are not, with two of them, side loaded to the point of damage. Now, Skull's has some problems, and you need to take that into consideration. And you need to be aware this is not the manufactured approved modification. And your taking you life into your hands with nobody to blame but your self for doing something. Especially me. And I think it is great that somebody it being critical of the way I had to do this. And looking and the real information and not just the experimentation of a back yard hack, on the internet. You should do your homework. The reason I want to build a bearing cup to hold the other ZX tapered bearing in the xx frame is to eliminate this exact variation in usage of the ball bearings. Thanks for the post. And I just got back from a 2400 mile 8 day ride in the twisties of Colorado, and hard bumps of post winter roads, without a single problem in that department, making 6k this summer back on the bike. Drug my toes in the corners, but no peg feelers, so very exciting for me. Keep it up guys, your doing it all right. I love the front on this bike, and the long arm of the zx, but you more than likely won't like the rear that way. But, fitting the 6 inch wide zx wheel to the rear arm of the xx is the right way to put the 190 on the bird, and still have the handling you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 So, Stan (or whoever has his ZXXX now) and Skull: I'm guessing you haven't noticed any serious deterioration in the bearings. Can you give me a rough idea of the mileage you've put on since the swap? The biggest problems I've had with those bearings is that, due to exactly the reasons your friend stated, it's difficult (at least for me) to determine how tight I should torque the steering head. As Stan mentioned, I have had some trouble with the front end bearings, but it was the tapered bottom bearing which has already notched. I attribute this to having used one from All-Balls, rather than a better quality thrust bearing. Due to a great many factors, most of them medical, Stan has actually put more miles on my bike than I have, and it's not enough to give you any meaningful data. I view my bike as a science project, at this point, and I deliberately do not expect anything other than for it to be temperamental. Stan has had good success with it, so I may come to view it in that light, eventually, as well, but my bike has other issues anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEye Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Thanks for the input guys. For now I'll be using the stock ZX bottom bearing -- my front end is brand new so any abnormal wear pattern should be obvious. I start my holidays July 13 so that's when I'll be starting this mod, unless I get one of my other bikes on the road first. For now the XX is my only ride to work except for my 1975 F100, but the way it goes through gas I might as well just stay home rather than using it as a commuter. I'm sure I'll have a million questions once I start, but one thing that occurs to me now -- do you need to use a seal at the top, when the bearings are already sealed? I'm guessing there's no stock seal that fits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 No need for another seal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEye Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 Okay, finally got started on this several weeks behind schedule (fuck you very much Canada Post). Lots of fun with corroded parts that haven't been touched in 13 years; I'm doing the exhaust as well and 3 header studs came out with the nuts (no big deal) and one nut came off fine but brought the threads from the stud along for the ride (d'oh!) Thank goodness for Honda's passion for re-using the same part as much as possible, the studs are common to so many bikes that I may actually be able to get one locally. Anyway, a few weeks ago I shimmed the new 50mm Danmoto clipons and put them on the XX forks to test fit them and new brake hardware. I had the front wheel off the ground and must've turned the bars lock to lock a hundred times. The head bearings felt fine. Well, last night I stripped it down to the bare triples and without the weight of the forks and wheel there's a very pronounced center detent -- it feels spring-loaded the way it snaps to center. I haven't taken the stem out yet (daytime is for yard work, night is for projects, sleep is optional) but I'm sure I'll need a new lower race. The ZX lower bearing and the race on the bottom of the stem are brand new I don't need the upper races so I find myself in need of one freakin outer race for the lower bearing. This seems like a good opportunity to upgrade the bottom to tapered roller but I'd like to avoid the All Balls kit; too many negative reports plus that would leave me with a top bearing I don't need. As far as I can tell the correct tapered roller replacement for the bottom bearing is a 32006 (55x30x17). Before I order one can anyone confirm that? I guess I'll have plenty of time to get the stripped stud out while I wait for a new bearing to arrive. Good thing I anticipated this project stretching out and planned ahead -- last week I bought this so I'd have something to ride while the XX was down: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I think that is right,,bearing size, and if you do get the All balls dual, I could use another for a project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEye Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 I found a Japanese made Koyo Seiko sealed tapered roller for $25 shipped, think I'll go with that. Most of the others I found seem to be made in China or <shudder> India. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhawkxx Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Very nice ride! Give us the details and what year is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEye Posted July 24, 2011 Author Share Posted July 24, 2011 Very nice ride! Give us the details and what year is it? 1986 VFR750F, 112,000 km. Gear driven cams, fairings beat up but mostly intact, bald tires, wouldn't idle. K&N filter completely clogged with mouse turds, fur, and seed husks. Cleaning it fixed the idle I just ordered new tires in the stock 16" front/18" rear sizes -- bias ply BT45s as AFAIK there are no radials that fit. I'm already researching suspension swaps to fit modern 17" rims but since I bought this specifically to ride as is and not make a project out of, I'm hoping that having a new set of rubber to use up will help me restrain myself for a while. The speedo is way out to lunch, reading over 20% high. The front tire is one size wider than stock, which makes it too wide for the wheel and messes up the profile. I really hope that putting the proper size tire back on helps because it's driving me nuts. Having a speedohealer on the Bird has spoiled me. But the Viffer has sufficient grunt, sounds great, and overall feels more like a supercharged Ninja 250 than a big bike. Nimble to the point of feeling weightless compared to the XX, although I'm sure the new head bearings (and the rest of the new front end) plus putting a 180 rear back on after I finish killing the present 190 will liven the old bird up considerably. Getting rid of about 30 lbs of stock mufflers, centerstand and linked brake crap can't hurt either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I found a Japanese made Koyo Seiko sealed tapered roller for $25 shipped, think I'll go with that. Most of the others I found seem to be made in China or <shudder> India. Send me a link, never seen a sealed taper bearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEye Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 32006 JRRS Sealed Tapered Roller Bearing Pic is generic, but you get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 32006 JRRS Sealed Tapered Roller Bearing Pic is generic, but you get the idea. ?? Yeah, so what country are you in??? gotta find some closer. Cool though. Learn something everyday from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrxxquad Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Na, just ordered from them, guess we will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEye Posted July 26, 2011 Author Share Posted July 26, 2011 That's not actually the place I ordered from, they just had a better pic Price looks about the same though. Funny how all the shops with quality Japanese bike bearings seem to be in the UK. I'm not complaining (at least not while the exchange rate is decent); for some reason Royal Mail service to Canada is a lot faster than getting mail from the US, and if the seller charges actual shipping (ie, isn't an asshole) it's pretty cheap too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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