testrider Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Hi all, I have a 97 XX with 50k miles. Yesterday when I rode to work on the freeway at around 70 mph (4000 rpm), the Datel voltage monitor suddenly showed 12.4V, instead of the usual around 13.9V. It lasted about 2, 3 minutes then it went back to normal (13.9V) and didn't happen again. Today, I rode to work again on the freeway and it happened exactly as yesterday. It dropped to 12.4V for 2 minutes or so, then went back up to 13.9V and didn't happen again. What exactly happened? I installed a R1 regulator 3 years ago at around 27k miles and it has been working flawlessly. By the way, the R1 regulator puts out around 14-14.1V at 4000 rpm since it was new and is normal. The battery is 5 years old but still cranking strong. I have a HID low beam so it already draws less than the stock low beam (35w vs 55w). I'd appreciate any inputs and comments. Thank you very much. -mike- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuffguyF4i Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Could your HID bulb have gone out and it needed to refire? Loose connection? When the HID first comes on, they take alot of juice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobicus Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Either it's the HID dropping (although a warm one takes a split second to refire... ) or by my guess a failing stator. Edit: It's worth taking a look at the connectors, too, just to see if anything's loose/corroded/cooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 That's exactly what my stock R/R did when it was failing... It would hang out at 12.something, then back up to 14.2, then back down... The Yamaha regs are more reliable (and half the price) than the original Honda regs (on early 'birds), but they're not imune to failure... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testrider Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 That's exactly what my stock R/R did when it was failing... It would hang out at 12.something, then back up to 14.2, then back down... The Yamaha regs are more reliable (and half the price) than the original Honda regs (on early 'birds), but they're not imune to failure... Mike I'm pretty sure it wasn't the HID. When I saw it dropped to 12.4V at 4000 rpm @ 70+ mph, I turned off the HID (I installed a switch to turn it on/off independently) and it was still at 12.4V. After 2 or 3 minutes or so, it went back up to normal at 13.9V. So, should I just leave it for a few more days and keep my eyes on the Datel or should I just go ahead and replace the regulator or stator? Will it die suddenly and leave me stranded? Thanks again. -mike- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 That's exactly what my stock R/R did when it was failing... It would hang out at 12.something, then back up to 14.2, then back down... The Yamaha regs are more reliable (and half the price) than the original Honda regs (on early 'birds), but they're not imune to failure... Mike I'm pretty sure it wasn't the HID. When I saw it dropped to 12.4V at 4000 rpm @ 70+ mph, I turned off the HID (I installed a switch to turn it on/off independently) and it was still at 12.4V. After 2 or 3 minutes or so, it went back up to normal at 13.9V. So, should I just leave it for a few more days and keep my eyes on the Datel or should I just go ahead and replace the regulator or stator? Will it die suddenly and leave me stranded? Thanks again. -mike- Check all of your connectors, first... If it's doing that, it's on its way out... Mike at UMotors Fargo just hooked me up with an R1 R/R for $68 shipped, last week... A good thing to carry as a spare, anyway, even if you don't need it right now... As a matter of fact, I got tired of selling my spare to somebody who needs it at a meet, etc. so I just ordered 2, so I've got a spare for somebody else, while keeping my spare for myself... Anything intermittent (not engine temp dependant) is almost always silicone (diodes, etc.... R/R), instead of wound wire... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Knievel Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Interesting. I put a Datel on my bike. Normally, it reads around 12v when turned on, but not running. At idle, I normally see it reading 14-14.5. When the bike's been running for a while (especially highway miles) it starts to jump from 14.5 to the 13 range, sometimes down to 12 and back up. I figure the battery has a full charge and it's clamping down voltage as it should. In the morning, the bike starts and has 12v, so I don't worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 That is a lot like what my voltage meter indicated when my stator went. Yours might be in the process of failing but not yet failed completely (intermittent). Try running the charging system tests and see what the readings tell you. Readings on the meter: ignition on but not running: 12.4v, running at fast idle: 13.5v, running at >3000 RPM: between 14v and 15v, depending on outside temperature (my charging system seems to run a bit higher voltage when the ambient temps are high, like above 80 degrees). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testrider Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 Hi bartonmd, Got a web site or phone number of Mike at UMotors that I can order one if I find out that it's my regulator that's failing? Thanks. -mike- Check all of your connectors, first... If it's doing that, it's on its way out... Mike at UMotors Fargo just hooked me up with an R1 R/R for $68 shipped, last week... A good thing to carry as a spare, anyway, even if you don't need it right now... As a matter of fact, I got tired of selling my spare to somebody who needs it at a meet, etc. so I just ordered 2, so I've got a spare for somebody else, while keeping my spare for myself... Anything intermittent (not engine temp dependant) is almost always silicone (diodes, etc.... R/R), instead of wound wire... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testrider Posted July 23, 2009 Author Share Posted July 23, 2009 That is a lot like what my voltage meter indicated when my stator went. Yours might be in the process of failing but not yet failed completely (intermittent). Try running the charging system tests and see what the readings tell you. Readings on the meter: ignition on but not running: 12.4v, running at fast idle: 13.5v, running at >3000 RPM: between 14v and 15v, depending on outside temperature (my charging system seems to run a bit higher voltage when the ambient temps are high, like above 80 degrees). I'm afraid that even I run a charging system check, it still won't show up as the symptom is now only intermittent. Last night when I rode home on the freeway it happened again. This time it dropped to 12.4V for about 15-20 minutes before it went back up to 13.9V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 I'm afraid that even I run a charging system check, it still won't show up as the symptom is now only intermittent. Yeah, you're probably right on that. I don't know what to tell you; you could change out the stator before it fails completely or wait it out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testrider Posted July 24, 2009 Author Share Posted July 24, 2009 I'm afraid that even I run a charging system check, it still won't show up as the symptom is now only intermittent. Yeah, you're probably right on that. I don't know what to tell you; you could change out the stator before it fails completely or wait it out.... I just ordered a new battery as I need it soon anyway so I start with that... Then I'll go for the r/r... then stator... I guess. If I have to get a new stator, should I get a new OEM for about $220 (from Ronayers.com) or a Rick (for $140)? Any good recommendations? Is this the left side cover gasket I'm supposed to order too? http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/Module...CRANKCASE_COVER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 I just ordered a new battery as I need it soon anyway so I start with that... Then I'll go for the r/r... then stator... I guess. If I have to get a new stator, should I get a new OEM for about $220 (from Ronayers.com) or a Rick (for $140)? Any good recommendations? Is this the left side cover gasket I'm supposed to order too? http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/Module...CRANKCASE_COVER Yes, that is the gasket you need. Personally, I went with an OEM stator. My brother had a bunch of trouble with an after market stator and ended going back to an OEM. YMMV, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 Hi bartonmd, Got a web site or phone number of Mike at UMotors that I can order one if I find out that it's my regulator that's failing? Thanks. -mike- Check all of your connectors, first... If it's doing that, it's on its way out... Mike at UMotors Fargo just hooked me up with an R1 R/R for $68 shipped, last week... A good thing to carry as a spare, anyway, even if you don't need it right now... As a matter of fact, I got tired of selling my spare to somebody who needs it at a meet, etc. so I just ordered 2, so I've got a spare for somebody else, while keeping my spare for myself... Anything intermittent (not engine temp dependant) is almost always silicone (diodes, etc.... R/R), instead of wound wire... Mike www.umotorsfargo.com Ask for Mike, and ask about the cbr1100xx.org discount... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testrider Posted July 25, 2009 Author Share Posted July 25, 2009 Ok, guys, I removed the tail and followed the electrosport charging system diagnotic chart (http://www.cbr1100xx.org/files/reference/charging_diag.pdf) and I have a couple of questions: - on step B, it said to measure the resistance between any 2 yellow wires and if they are lower than 0.5 Ohm or higher than 2 Ohms then the stator is at fault. However, looking at my Honda shop manual for my 1997 XX, it said if the resistance is from 0.22 Ohm to 0.26 Ohm it's ok. What gives? Mine measured all 0.2 Ohm between any 2 YELLOW wires and it should be OK according the Honda shop manual? - on step C, 1st step said "disconnect the R/R from the bike, then use the diode-test function to best the output wire of the R/R and any YELLOW wire." If the R/R is disconnected from the bike and you are measuring between 1 of the R/R pin and 1 of the wire on the bike, what can it exactly measure? It doesn't make sense here. I'd appreciate any help and comments. THanks. -mike- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhubarbray Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 I think what they`re asking you to do is check the diodes within the r/r. If you put your multimeter on diode check, put your leads between any input wire and the output wire you should have current flow in one direction but not the other. Reverse the leads on the same two wires and the indication should be different from the last reading. If they`re the same, them one (or more) of the diodes has broken down internally. Change to a different input lead and repeat the test. Repeat for all three input leads. Current should flow from the yellow input leads into the r/r and then out to the red wire but not the other way. Sometimes, what I do is if checking for a broken diode is put the leads on the battery while the meter is set on AC, not DC. If one of the diodes is not working, it should show up as very erratic ac rather than clean dc. This is because the non working diode isn`t there to smooth the output sine wave. Oops,....while the bike is RUNNING and at a higher rpm to ensure charging. Does this help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testrider Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 www.umotorsfargo.com Ask for Mike, and ask about the cbr1100xx.org discount... Mike Thanks! I'm going to order a new one for backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testrider Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 Thanks. It does. I'm going to retest it again. I went ahead to reinstall the Honda OEM I removed when I installed the R1. It was still good when I took it off my bike. However, since I already cut off the stock wiring connector to wire the R1, I had to cut off the plastic shroud on the OEM r/r, then used a Dremel to file down 2 of the wider connector pins, before I could put it back on the same wiring. I think what they`re asking you to do is check the diodes within the r/r. If you put your multimeter on diode check, put your leads between any input wire and the output wire you should have current flow in one direction but not the other. Reverse the leads on the same two wires and the indication should be different from the last reading. If they`re the same, them one (or more) of the diodes has broken down internally. Change to a different input lead and repeat the test. Repeat for all three input leads. Current should flow from the yellow input leads into the r/r and then out to the red wire but not the other way. Sometimes, what I do is if checking for a broken diode is put the leads on the battery while the meter is set on AC, not DC. If one of the diodes is not working, it should show up as very erratic ac rather than clean dc. This is because the non working diode isn`t there to smooth the output sine wave. Oops,....while the bike is RUNNING and at a higher rpm to ensure charging. Does this help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testrider Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 Thanks. I just retested the R1 r/r I removed yesterday. From the Electrosport diagnostic chart, step C: -2nd step: when putting the black probe on the OUTPUT of the r/r and RED probe on the YELLOW wires, mine showed about 0.7V, while the chart said it should be around 0.5V. I guess that's still good? - Same as the 4th step. With the RED probe on the ground pin of the r/r and black probe on the YELLOW wires, I got around 0.7V on all 3 YELLOW wires while the chart said 0.5V. If it's ok, then the R1 r/r had no problem. I think what they`re asking you to do is check the diodes within the r/r. If you put your multimeter on diode check, put your leads between any input wire and the output wire you should have current flow in one direction but not the other. Reverse the leads on the same two wires and the indication should be different from the last reading. If they`re the same, them one (or more) of the diodes has broken down internally. Change to a different input lead and repeat the test. Repeat for all three input leads. Current should flow from the yellow input leads into the r/r and then out to the red wire but not the other way. Sometimes, what I do is if checking for a broken diode is put the leads on the battery while the meter is set on AC, not DC. If one of the diodes is not working, it should show up as very erratic ac rather than clean dc. This is because the non working diode isn`t there to smooth the output sine wave. Oops,....while the bike is RUNNING and at a higher rpm to ensure charging. Does this help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testrider Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 I took another testride this morning for about 2 hours and it never happened again so it was the R1 regulator that failed (intermittently). I replaced my original OEM r/r in April 2006 with a Yamaha R1 r/r when my 97 XX had 27k miles as a precaution. Now the R1 r/r has failed after only 23k miles, while the original OEM r/r is still working fine. Well, I have to rethink about getting another R1 r/r... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testrider Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 www.umotorsfargo.com Ask for Mike, and ask about the cbr1100xx.org discount... Mike Thanks. It said "Sorry, 'www.umotorsfargo.com' does not exist or is not available."... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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