bpg Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 OK, I've logged about 8K on the XX since purchase this spring - loving the bike to death but the stock suspension is definitely in need of upgrade... The two biggest issues are the rough highway ride, especially when hitting expansion joints continuously on looooong days, and the somewhat vague feeling in tight twisties (especially bumpy twisties). Tweaking the rear pre-load alleviates some of this, but it's a royal PITA.. I'm looking for any advice for carrying this out as far as components (whether off of other Honda sportbikes or aftermarket) and what components work well together. I'm of a somewhat limited budget right now, but I'd prefer said components to be upgradable in the future, if possible.. thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunedain Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 How limited a budget? I put an Ohlins on the rear resprung and race-tech valved the front and it's now golden. ~$1250 (that is dealer discount and my own labor) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrich Posted July 31, 2006 Share Posted July 31, 2006 new fork springs and change fluid about $120 new rear shock, Penske Sport shock if you do not ride 2 up or do track days anout $600 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpg Posted July 31, 2006 Author Share Posted July 31, 2006 How limited a budget? I put an Ohlins on the rear resprung and race-tech valved the front and it's now golden. ~$1250 (that is dealer discount and my own labor) oy - more limited than that, LOL! I was thinking around $500 tops, my labor.. Would love Ohlins as I've read great things about them in here, but unfortunately there's no way I could swing them until next year. new fork springs and change fluid about $120 new rear shock, Penske Sport shock if you do not ride 2 up or do track days anout $600 Which spring and what fluid weight did you use for the forks? FWIW, I weigh about 170#.. No track days and maybe 2-up 5% of the time, but I do like hitting roads like the Dragon hard, and often tour with full camping set-up... Does the Penske have a remote pre-load adjuster or any other "ease-of-use" features? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBXX Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 The racetech gold valves and new springs will take care of a lot of the harshness once you get them set up right . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrich Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 new fork springs and change fluid about $120 new rear shock, Penske Sport shock if you do not ride 2 up or do track days anout $600 Which spring and what fluid weight did you use for the forks? FWIW, I weigh about 170#.. No track days and maybe 2-up 5% of the time, but I do like hitting roads like the Dragon hard, and often tour with full camping set-up... Does the Penske have a remote pre-load adjuster or any other "ease-of-use" features? Traxxion Dynamics 1.0 Kg springs, stock fluid wt, 7.5 I believe. Stock valving. The Penske does not have remote preload. It has preload and compression adjustments. A Penske with remote preload and rebound adj gets you up close to the $800 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gourmet Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 For bang for the buck the front is fine with just Racetech gold valves, at 170 lbs the stock spring is fine. For the rear the Ohlins is fantastic. Yes it it is pricey but the difference is at the wow level especially if you are into the twisties. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpg Posted March 4, 2007 Author Share Posted March 4, 2007 (re-visiting this topic now that I have some $$ - though still looking at ~$500 total for F/R susp. upgrades): Focusing on the front for now: Well damn - so do I "need" the Gold Valve kit or not? If yes, just the "regular" Gold Valve kit or the "Rebound" Gold Valve kit? And if yes, will it work with any fork? I'm leaning toward the Hyperpro progressive front springs just because I do so much varied riding, under many different weights (sometimes 2-up, sometimes with a week's worth of gear, etc...). Getting back to what I just mentioned, would the Gold Valve kit provide a noticeable difference with the Hyperpro springs? Also, would it be worthwhile to do the B-12 pre-load adjustment mod at the same time, given the varied weights that the bike might carry? Sorry for all the ?'s - I'm just trying to sort out the myriad of ways to improve the XX front suspenders... In my case I want/need to identify those that provide the most bang for the buck. I'm sure each and every product/method out there has its own merit as far as improving handling, but no doubt the law of diminishing returns steps in at some point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beondwacko Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 I too am watching where this thread goes. I also have the same complaint as you about the highway ride ( over expansion joints especially ) and I too will sometimes ride 2 up, once in a while ride with gear, and also once in a while ride twisties. I want the springs that John01XX got while he was over in England last year. The difference in comfort and turn in over stock are astounding to say the least. Getting back on my bike after that was a major letdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneXX Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 I've got the Hyperpro front and rear springs on mine, and I'm very pleased with them. I picked up a rear shock off Ebay with around 5,000 miles on it to replace my 35,000 mile shock for like 40 bucks. So I have about $300 into my suspension, and did all the work myself. The ride is fantastic on the highway, handling in the twisties is much improved over stock, and when riding two up I don't really know she's back there. How it compares to other suspension upgrades I don't know as I haven't ridden any other 'birds with upgraded suspensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrich Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 The requirements you have stated ( 2-up riding or a lot of gear on the bike) would both reside on the rear of the bike, so I am not sure doing anything with the front end is going to assist you much there. Do not get me wrong, just springs (any type, although I prefer single rate as opposed to progressive) and new fluid will make a big difference. You might want to consider investing in an adjustable shock first, then work on the cheaper front end mod. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodantking Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 The requirements you have stated ( 2-up riding or a lot of gear on the bike) would both reside on the rear of the bike, so I am not sure doing anything with the front end is going to assist you much there. Do not get me wrong, just springs (any type, although I prefer single rate as opposed to progressive) and new fluid will make a big difference. You might want to consider investing in an adjustable shock first, then work on the cheaper front end mod. Just my 2 cents. +1 I just changed springs and went to 5w oil. Won't say its perfect, but for a 100 bucks it was night and day. The Traxxion AK rebuild seams like the best route to go but that one will cost over a grand just for the forks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bird Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Here's my two cents worth. At 102,000 kms it was time to address the f&r suspension. I purchased a Penske remote, 1000kg springs, adjustable rear shock, $757.00; front spring, 100 ml over length, spacers 100 ml under, non-progressive. Pre-load adjusters, approx $500, Can. from Jaws on the Brit site. I highly recommend John from Jaws. There are many other knowledgeable peeps on this site as well. John is knowledgeable and helpfull. I also sprung for a fulll braided brake/clutch kit from Jaws; $500 Can. Not part of the suspension up-grade but "in for penny, in for a pound". Of course I had to buy a rear hugger as well. OK, I spent $2,000 Can. and now I have to spring for the installation. For me it's part of my riding costs. I do a great deal of touring, fully loaded Givi bags plus often my wife on long trips so I needed the upgrades. F.W. it's W, I have to take a hit when buying from the USA or England, but if I purchased the upgrades in Canada I'd be paying dealer mark ups. I'll be having all the work done in a couple of weeks and hopefully I'll post some pics. Yes, it's expensive to do it right, but there are perhaps others, cheaper methods. 6mm shims? Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrich Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Here's my two cents worth. At 102,000 kms it was time to address the f&r suspension. I purchased a Penske remote, 1000kg springs, adjustable rear shock, $757.00; front spring, 100 ml over length, spacers 100 ml under, non-progressive. Pre-load adjusters, approx $500, Can. from Jaws on the Brit site. I highly recommend John from Jaws. There are many other knowledgeable peeps on this site as well. John is knowledgeable and helpfull. I also sprung for a fulll braided brake/clutch kit from Jaws; $500 Can. Not part of the suspension up-grade but "in for penny, in for a pound". Of course I had to buy a rear hugger as well. OK, I spent $2,000 Can. and now I have to spring for the installation. For me it's part of my riding costs. I do a great deal of touring, fully loaded Givi bags plus often my wife on long trips so I needed the upgrades. F.W. it's W, I have to take a hit when buying from the USA or England, but if I purchased the upgrades in Canada I'd be paying dealer mark ups. I'll be having all the work done in a couple of weeks and hopefully I'll post some pics. Yes, it's expensive to do it right, but there are perhaps others, cheaper methods. 6mm shims? Good luck. That is fine and well, but his budget is about $500 USD, so your $1757 CAN is prolly a little beyond his reach right now. Pre-load adjusters are a "nicey" thing, but do not affect the quality of the suspension one way or the other. It just makes it easier to set pre-load, instead of cutting spacers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackStreet Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 First, tire pressure is a no cost adjustment you can make. 34-36psi gives a much better ride and more grip. Add 4 psi for 2 riders. Make sure rear wheel the alignment is exact when you adjust the chain too. Next, measure the sag. Sag will tell you if you need new springs or just a little more or less preload. The stock spring's sag was just a little high for me. A spacer can add some preload in the front. Load the bike and yourself with gear to measure. If you want a more sport bike like response, put a 3-6mm washer under the rear shock mount. You can find instructions on here. This may help with two riders also. With 8,000 miles, I suggest you change the tires next. Alot of the ride comes from the tires. I changed to Dunlop Qualifiers but most of the boys run Michelin Pilots. For me, the Qualifers gave quicker steering I wanted, much better grip around the back roads I travel and a much better ride. Change the tires first even if you are going to change other parts. Still not happy? If the front is mushey or spungy especially after a ride on a hot day, add or change to a heavier weight fork oil. Make sure you have the exact same amount in each fork. Measure what you remove from each side and re-add the same amount. I'm very happy with my bike now and all I bought were tires I needed anyway, a few washers, and a little fork oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para045 Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Well I have put a 95 CBR900RR rear shock on mine with an 1100lb Eibach spring because the original shock had lost all damping and the spring was 40 000km old and way underrated for my 130kg(300lb) arse, not to mention if I put the missus on the back The shock cost me US$61+$65 s+h ($168AUD) off eBay, the spring $160AUD and $140AUD for a rebuild, so ~$470AUD total +6mm shim but it has made a huge difference to the handling of the bike and it is not battering my lower back like the stocker was + it holds the road better and does not feel vague around high speed sweepers :icon_clap:I do still have to get around to setting the sags and fiddling with the damping :icon_think: The only thing I will say is that as I have not done anything on the front , with the extra load from the shim it does seem a bit slower in the real tight stuff :icon_think: but I intend to get higher rate fork springs and new oil this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrich Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 I'm very happy with my bike now and all I bought were tires I needed anyway, a few washers, and a little fork oil. If you ever do an real suspension mods, you will not know whether to shit or wind your watch you'll be so amazed by the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpg Posted March 5, 2007 Author Share Posted March 5, 2007 The requirements you have stated ( 2-up riding or a lot of gear on the bike) would both reside on the rear of the bike, so I am not sure doing anything with the front end is going to assist you much there. Do not get me wrong, just springs (any type, although I prefer single rate as opposed to progressive) and new fluid will make a big difference. You might want to consider investing in an adjustable shock first, then work on the cheaper front end mod. Just my 2 cents. good point - after reading a LOT and talking with some suspension gurus, I'm now considering the following: weight-specific Race-tech front springs and oil - likely also the Race-tech Gold Valve kit The more I read about the Gold Valves, the more impressed I am.. slightly used CBR900RR rear shock, maybe w/ aftermarket spring - reason: cheap, adjustable, sounds like it works well for my weight. Just need to search for which years swap right into the Bird.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para045 Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 slightly used CBR900RR rear shock, maybe w/ aftermarket spring - reason: cheap, adjustable, sounds like it works well for my weight. Just need to search for which years swap right into the Bird.. This data used to be posted, but was lost when the database died. I am copying this from an article that was written by Carlos (Swampnut) Shock The early and mid CBR900RR's had the same length shock as the XX does. This means you can transplant a shock very simply--it's just a bolt-on. However, the spring from the 900 is far too light. RaceTech steps in with a spring that is still not as stiff as I'd like, but very close. The spring has to be replaced by someone with a press or heavy-duty spring compressor. In one case, one of our readers made his own. This may be an option, but there is some danger involved and you'll need a couple of odd pieces of metal. I preferred to have a local dealer do it for me for $30. Once you have the right spring on there, the swap is simple and is detailed in the service manual. You'll then need to mount the remote reservoir. I found that it ended up right next to a very large wiring harness, so I zip-tied it to the harness. This results in a solid mount where it is accessible for adjustment but up out of the way. I bought the 900 shock from a local shop for $50. Many others have reported paying anywhere from $50 to $125, which is still reasonable. You will need a shock from a '93-'95 model; the later years won't fit. This will carry one of the following part numbers: MWO-003 ( MWO-0132A ( 52400-MW0-013ZA ) MWO-0132B ( 52400-MW0-013ZB ) MAE-0032B ( 52400-MAE-003ZB ) The Showa part numbers starting with "MAS" are the wrong part and will not fit (it is 3/4" too short). And here is a little more info from a later article. Ok, we did some tuning today. When you read this, keep in mind I'm 220 and I have the Beetle Bags on my bike (17 pounds) with about 10 pounds of stuff in them. This applies with the suspension modifications which are detailed here. Unfortunately, the rear spring is still just on the soft side (at least for my riding style), though it's the stiffest that RaceTech makes. I'm waiting to talk to Traxxion Dynamics about what they have. RaceTech recommends a 16.5 kg/mm spring, but only makes up to a 16.0 spring. So I have the preload set to max (7) and would still like a higher rate. The rear damping settings are probably going to seem odd, but I swear this is what makes the compression and rebound even and about right. Rebound is 1/4 turn from full soft, and compression is 1/4 turn from full hard. This was double-checked by a very experienced shop owner and racer, so it's not just me going nuts. The rebound might be a *little* soft, but probably not even by 1/4 turn. I need to ride it a bit more. Having the compression right has made a huge difference in accelerating out of corners (or acceleration in general), and wheelies. I definitely need more ride height in the rear. I'd say 3/8-1/2 inch. I never got a call back from the people who make the height adjusters. I might try again, or might just stack a few washers under the mount. I could lower the front, but I already scrape pegs too often. The stock 900RR shock spring is WAY to soft. (The stock 1100XX spring is to long) RaceTech no longer has any of the 16.0 Springs available, but someone did find another shop who still had a few of theses springs available. Hopefully, someone will add that information in another post. The part #'s in red are the actual part #'s off Ron Ayers, I think the originals are typo's Ron Ayers - 900RR shock This is my writeup on OzBB The only problem I can see with this mod is being able to find a spring rated highly enough to suit my 130 kg ( muscular ) frame and the missus's 80 kg as well. There seems like a lack of suitable springs rated high enough for either the CBR900RR or BB shocks Call Sean (number above) and ask him. A couple of years ago he told me he can order custom made springs from BHP and they were even cheaper than the Eibachs. I've been buying Eiabch for resale reasons. Well I have just bought myself a 95 CBR900 shock from ebay US $61 , shipping is actually more expensive than the shock US $65 :shock: Now I just have to get a suitable spring :? . So what is it they do they do when they rebuild the shock, they change the damping to suit your weight, spring and riding requirements and regas is that right :?: I have looked at the Eibach site and they do not even list a rear spring for the 95 900rr let alone an uprated one :shock: Well I have my lovely 900RR shock and will be picking up my Eibach ERS 0600.225.1100 ( 6" x 2.25" x 1100lb ) spring today and hopefully take it to the suspension guy tomorrow, I was going to send it to SOS suspension in Sydney where Stealth got his done but a couple of people recommended John Northcote from " The Bike Doctor " here in Perth so I will get him to do it ( rebuild/regas $140 ) and save about $ 40 in freight costs :roll: I was thinking about going for a Hyperpro progressive spring but the price from the dist in Qld was $ 200 + shipping and 6-8 weeks wait :shock: I looked at getting either the HP or the Eibach from the states but shipping costs and conversion rates meant around $ 277 & $ 260, the Eibach dist finally got back to me and I was able to order a suitable spring from a local car/4WD suspension place - WA Suspensions, $ 165 pick up from them . I am glad it is finally coming together and hope to have the shock ( and Blu's shim ) in within a couple of weeks and looking forward to a much more comfortable and predictable ride for around $ 450 8) BTW if anyone else is looking for springs try http://eibach.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.exe/09110...292489300011927 North America – ERS Main – Imperial – 6.00” – 2.25”, you can go metric but the 1100lb spring rate comes out at 193 ( 19.30 kg/mm I guess ) and most site that talk about suspension are US so use imperial :wink: . This chart makes it easy to find the right spring and order # Well I started to fit the 900RR shock and shim today and they went in fairly easily, now I just need to make sure of the mounting position of the remote reservoir, I have zip tied it to the underside of the left seat frame but it looks like there may not be enough clearance to the chainguard, how much clearance should there be :?:Any thoughts - Stealth, Raven ? :? Craig I think you will need to turn the shock 180 dgrees as the hose outlet bolt wil probably end up holing the radiator reservoir. Judging by the length of your hose have you considered mounting the canister under the tank somewhere. It doesnt look long enough to get too fancy onto the sub frame anywhere. My spacer length is 15mm. Tony Yeah thats what I ended up doing, turned the shock 180 deg - not because of the bolt though as when bolted up there was about 10mm gap bolt to res tank, it was because of the length of the hose :? . When mounted to the l/h subframe I think that the clearance to the chain guard wasn't enough and would have caused binding . One of the guys on cbr1100xx.org did say he notched the front of his chain guard but I didn't want that, Herbxx showed us a pic of his mounted under his batt box. In the end after rotating 180 deg I mounted the res to the ali bracket that the foot peg fits onto, basically the opposite of where it is in the pics, I cut a bicycle inner tube and slipped it over the res to protect it and used a big hose clamp. 8) EDIT: I believe that HerbXX used a revalved F4 shock on his but they are ~6mm shorter so you would need a bigger shim on top to get the length Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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