JasonW Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I'm looking to get in on the Pazzo lever group buy, but I've got a situation I need to clear up first. I've got a front fork setup from a ZX12 that I'm fitting to the 'bird including the front brakes/wheel/rotors/calipers/etc.... I was originally going to use the ZX12 master cylinder as it looks similar to the 'bird's, but shaped a little different (meaning it's a cast piece and not a plastic "urine sample" style remote container). Obviously, the brakes will be delinked and I'll be using the stock ZX12 calipers (6 piston Tokicos). What I'd like to know is: Is there Honda replacement master cylinder that will work with these calipers that closely matches the stock unit (to match the clutch side), or should I just order a brake lever for the 12 and the clutch lever for the VFR and call it good, since I know it will work? Any help/advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Do you know what the bore is on the 12 master? XX stock front master has a 1/2" bore. There is a unit very similar in appearance from a foriegn market bike (cb400?) that has a 5/8" bore. Only differnce is the bore and a threaded tab for a mirror. Let me know if you want a pic, there's one on my bike right now. I lost the part number in a computer upgrade, but I'm pretty sure XRDracer knows what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I'm doing something very similar but I'm using the entire front end off of a 2002 Busa. Instead of using the Honda brake and clutch reservoirs, I'm using the factory Suzuki parts. Finding custom levers for the Suzuki (The Kaw in your case) will be much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I'm doing something very similar but I'm using the entire front end off of a 2002 Busa. Instead of using the Honda brake and clutch reservoirs, I'm using the factory Suzuki parts. Finding custom levers for the Suzuki (The Kaw in your case) will be much easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonW Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 Tim, I'm not sure what the bore size is on the 12. I'll do some digging to try to find out. I appreciate the offer for pics, but it's not necessary right at the moment. I'm sure if it's good enough for you and Howie, it's good enough for me. :wink: Jeff, You can say that again. :wink: I had thought about using the busa front as well, but found a smokin' deal on the 12 stuff. Besides, I couldn't find an aftermarket fender for the 'busa that I liked, and the stock unit won't match what I'm doing with the rest of the bike. Is it a straight fit, or do you have to do a lot of machining (steering stem, etc...)? Also, are the handlebars in the right position or do you require something like Helibars in order to clear the tank surround on the 'bird? Curious since the top yokes are similar in design. I don't have the 'bird torn down just yet to try it on, but I did get to quickly slip the stem/trees in my frame when I had it apart after the crash. At the time the season was ending soon and I wanted to ride again so I fit some used stock forks in there to get me by. As far as I can tell so far, the ZX12 stem and bearings will fit straight in but the top yoke will need some work to accept the XX ignition unit. Nothing really major, though. I'm thinking mismatched master cylinder reservoirs will be the easy/cheap route since I already have them. I was just hoping to find something that would be a better match to the stock unit before I pull the trigger for levers. Now that I think about it, I think the Pazzo levers are pretty much the same, except for the portion that links the lever to the master cylinder. I'll have to contact them to find out for sure, though. If so, I could always buy one for the ZX12 brake side and then convert it over later if I find a master that works with the 12's brakes (providing they'll sell the receiver block seperately). I may have just answered my own question. We'll see. Thanks for the responses, guys. Any other ideas/suggestions are welcome as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Do you know what the bore is on the 12 master?XX stock front master has a 1/2" bore. There is a unit very similar in appearance from a foriegn market bike (cb400?) that has a 5/8" bore. Only differnce is the bore and a threaded tab for a mirror. Let me know if you want a pic, there's one on my bike right now. I lost the part number in a computer upgrade, but I'm pretty sure XRDracer knows what it is. I think I have the number somewheres. It's off a CB400SF. The Honda masters have the size, in inches, cast into the body. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDAZ XX Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I dont think you will be able to use the same levers. The pivot point will probably be different as well as the MC section of the lever. Get the correct one now for the XX and sell it when you get the front end assembled, then get that one. Mikes getting me some Pazzo levers for a Brembo master cylinder brake and clutch set up and I know there not even close to the XX or RC lever assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porterb123 Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I have the 5/8 bore mc on mine after the delink, but if I remember correctly, had to order the lever with it, meaning the levers are not the same. It came from Howies source at TRS. I have wondered about which lever would fit if I break this one. Anyone know for sure?? Do you know what the bore is on the 12 master?XX stock front master has a 1/2" bore. There is a unit very similar in appearance from a foriegn market bike (cb400?) that has a 5/8" bore. Only differnce is the bore and a threaded tab for a mirror. Let me know if you want a pic, there's one on my bike right now. I lost the part number in a computer upgrade, but I'm pretty sure XRDracer knows what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I have the 5/8 bore mc on mine after the delink, but if I remember correctly, had to order the lever with it, meaning the levers are not the same. It came from Howies source at TRS. I have wondered about which lever would fit if I break this one.Anyone know for sure?? I have that info at home as well. IIRC, it's the same as a 954/6F4i. I do know I bought it from my local dealer. But allow me to check. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I have the 5/8 bore mc on mine after the delink, but if I remember correctly, had to order the lever with it, meaning the levers are not the same. It came from Howies source at TRS. I have wondered about which lever would fit if I break this one.Anyone know for sure?? I have that info at home as well. IIRC, it's the same as a 954/6F4i. I do know I bought it from my local dealer. But allow me to check. J. Shit, that hadn't even occured to me. Please confirm a.s.a.p. J. I've already odered the XX levers, and that ain't gonna work. Going to have to change my order. Idiot....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Idiot....... Well, fuck you, too. :wink: J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 LOL, You ever do that? I probably call myself an idiot or a moron more than I do any other single person. And I've had some serious idiots and morons in my employ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Just got off the phone with Howie: He has CB400SF master cylinder (XX-esque) and CRG levers. The brake side CRGs he has are AN-541, which fit: 954 CBR600F4i The original part number he gave me, is Honda's number 53170-MBW-006 (CBR600F4i) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 LOL, You ever do that? No. :roll: :wink: J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Just got off the phone with Howie:He has CB400SF master cylinder (XX-esque) and CRG levers. The brake side CRGs he has are AN-541, which fit: 954 CBR600F4i The original part number he gave me, is Honda's number 53170-MBW-006 (CBR600F4i) Thank you. Idiot. I have what I want now, so I can say that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonW Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 I dont think you will be able to use the same levers. The pivot point will probably be different as well as the MC section of the lever. The pivot point is identical between the stock ZX12 and the XX levers. The only difference is the portion that actually contacts the MC and this portion is a seperate piece on both levers. In fact, if I slip the XX lever into the 12's perch even the portion that activates the brake switch fits and functions perfectly. The part that contacts the plunger on the MC would work as well, but the XX's is cupped to accept a ball on the MC where the 12's is flat. So my thinking is that if I were to produce aftermarket levers, I'd try to make one lever work in as many applications as possible by only changing the portion that contacts the MC. By the description on Dale's group buy page, I'm under the impression that a special "receiver block" was designed to make an existing lever work on the XX, therefore meaning (In my mind) that the lever itself was intended for a different bike (or many other bikes by simply changing the receiver block). I'll try to contact them tomorrow to see if I'm an idiot as well. :wink: Also, IIRC the CBR600RR has a MC that looks very similar to the XX's. I wonder if it would be compatable instead of the one from the CB400sf? Didn't you guys delink before the release of the CBR600RR or at least shortly thereafter? Is there somewhere that I can easily find out the MC bore sizes of different bikes so I can compare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDAZ XX Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Cool! 8) Always good to learn something new. Drop Mike at CTS an email. Hes online in the evening alot so you might get an answer tonight. Click on the link on the bottom of my post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Also, IIRC the CBR600RR has a MC that looks very similar to the XX's. I wonder if it would be compatable instead of the one from the CB400sf? Didn't you guys delink before the release of the CBR600RR or at least shortly thereafter? Is there somewhere that I can easily find out the MC bore sizes of different bikes so I can compare? I delinked after the 600, but mine is based on info from Howie who got it from TSR when he got his parts, which was likely before then. I'd look for 900/929/954, CBR6 and possibly even 919 or Superhawk. You could probably easily compare the MC bore sizes at your local dealer. I've some time Saturday, perhaps I'll head down to the Honda store to check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Didn't you guys delink before the release of the CBR600RR or at least shortly thereafter? Considerably before in my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 954 - 5/8" 929 - 3/4" One thing not considered, is the leverage on the handle. Big factor. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonW Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 Thanks guys! I sent Mike an email to see if my lever theory is correct. Okay, I'm an idiot as well.... for reasons altogether different than you guys. :wink: I missed the part in your post, Jeremy, about the bore size being stamped into the casting of the MC. I didn't realize that I simply had to look at the MC to determine bore size. Duh! :roll: The 12's MC is a 5/8" bore and I'm really hoping that the 600RR is the same. I might try to stop by the stealer tomorrow and look to see what other bikes might be compatible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonW Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 Wow! You were right, Randy.......Mike is definately quick to reply! Here's what he said about the levers..... "Yes all of pazzo levers are identical. What makes them unique to each bike id the "PERCH" block that connects the lever to the master cyl. Technically you could use the same levers for an infinite number of bikes as long as you had the perch blocks for the appropriate applications." I guess that makes me a little bit less Idiot-er. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Mike is definately quick to reply! Yes, he is definitley on the ball. Sent him an email regarding changing my order, any input on this- The F4i brake is Pazzo nuber "F-18" and the 954 is "F-29" they are not interchangable. I'm assuming this- The original part number he gave me, is Honda's number 53170-MBW-006 (CBR600F4i) means I should just go with the F4i lever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDAZ XX Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Hes a good guy that is really concerned about taking care of his customers. I had a real good feeling about him last saturday when I visited him. The guys really sharp. Some of the things hes doing building one off sportbikes is preatty amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red J Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 The F4i brake is Pazzo nuber "F-18" and the 954 is "F-29" they are not interchangable. I'm assuming this- The original part number he gave me, is Honda's number 53170-MBW-006 (CBR600F4i) means I should just go with the F4i lever? IMO, yes. Honda's levers for the 954 and F4i are different. From your above post, so are CTS/Pazzo. CRGs are the same for 954/F4i. (Edit: Used to be. I have a printout at work, of the CRG site where both the 954 and F4i share the same part number. This morning, checking the CRG site, they do not share a part number.) Ergo, for those of us with CB400SF master cylinders: OEM: CBR600F4i brake lever CBR1100XX clutch lever Pazzo: F4i brake lever XX clutch lever CRG: AN551 brake lever AN651B clutch lever J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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