bartonmd Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Did a UOA on my '97 'bird with 18k on the bike and 9k on the oil, with a filter change at 5k... Learned a few things... 1. I thought 9k was enough mileage on an engine to start running extended drain intervals... wrong. 2. When the thing is completely broken in, with the TBN being 6.8 still, I don't see a problem with running 10k drain intervals 3. I guess I don't get into much airborne silicate, or the K&N actually does an OK job, because my silicate with 9k on the oil is lower than the average with 2k on the oil... Although, I DID have the super-sticky spray-on foam filter oil on it for pretty much this whole oil change, and not the K&N oil... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Thank you. A couple of things though... Make up oil... why? wow there's a lot of Calcium in that oil. Interesting that for a supposed 25,000 mile oil... the analysis says you only should have gone 3,000.... How many miles do you have on your Bike total ? Hmmm.... makes me want to send my oil in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 I did just call, and she mis-typed... It's the copper that's high and may be from break-in... From talking to her, I may have confirmed that the engine did run on its side (read: Dry) for at least a short time when it was laid down before I got it because the Copper is usually about 1/3 of iron, but it's double what Iron is here, which may mean that it's ran without oil for a short time... She said that, after I get this copper cleaned out by doing the 2 short interval changes, that it shouldn't cause any long term damage or shortened life to the engine, so at least that's good. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Thank you.A couple of things though... Make up oil... why? wow there's a lot of Calcium in that oil. Interesting that for a supposed 25,000 mile oil... the analysis says you only should have gone 3,000.... How many miles do you have on your Bike total ? Hmmm.... makes me want to send my oil in. 1. Make up oil: about 1/2 Qt from changing the filter at 5k, and the other 1/2 Qt is because my bike burns (loses anyway, maybe through the breather as vapor into the airbox and through carbs, I don't know) about 1/3Qt in 5k miles for some reason... 2. She said extended drain intervals were fine, AFTER I do a couple 3000 mile change intervals to clean out the copper from break-in/maybe running on its side 3. It's in grey... oil had 9k on it, bike had 18k on it when I drained that oil. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Aluminum : Pistons, bearings, cases (heads & blocks). Chromium: Rings, a trace element in steel. Iron : Cylinders, rotating shafts, the valve train, and any steel part sharing the oil. Copper: Brass or bronze parts, copper bushings, bearings, oil coolers, also an additive in some gasoline engine oils. Lead: Bearings. Tin: Bearings, bronze parts, piston coatings. Molybdenum : Anti-wear additive, coating on some new rings (washes off as break-in occurs). Nickel: Trace element in steel. Manganese : Trace element, additive in gasoline. Silver: Trace element. Titanium: Trace element. Potassium : Antifreeze inhibitor, additive in some oil types. Boron: Detergent/dispersant additive, antifreeze inhibitors. Silicon : Airborne dirt, sealers, gaskets, antifreeze inhibitors. Sodium: Antifreeze inhibitors, additive in some gasoline engine oils. Calcium : Detergent/dispersant additive. Magnesium: Detergent/dispersant additive. Phosphorus: Anti-wear additive. Zinc: Anti-wear additive. Barium : Detergent/dispersant additive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDosdorian Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I hate to ask this... but why would you even run oil for 9K miles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 I actually changed it early (for the oil, not for my bike)... it's Amsoil full synthetic, and I changed the filter at 5k anyway... It's probably a 20k mile oil in this bike... once I get it broken in and the copper cleaned out... It's still in the low side of the 10W40 range (actually, Amsoil actually stays the same or gets thicker as it is run more), and there is plenty of additive left (TBN = 6.8, and you need to change the oil when the TBN = 1)... It just ends up that I started running extended drain intervals too early, because the engine wasn't broken in completely yet when I started, and then there's the possibility of it running on its side only one oil change before I started this oil, and you can't get all the oil out, especially since the thing sat after it was wrecked, and the guy before me changed the oil as one of the first things he did to it, meaning that all the deposits became a part of the oil that was in it when I changed to this oil... I'm going to do the 2 changes at 3k, and send in the second one for analysis... If that one's pretty much clean for copper, I'll do longer ones again... and do the analysis before draining it to see how long it's really "good" Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texhoss Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Mike , I was thinking that the Birds had a tipover shutdown on the motor, after a certain angle on the bike with a rider going down. I was thinking they were set up like the ST 1100. I could have this wrong. Thanks, Texhoss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 I don't know if they do or don't... I would REALLY like to hear that it has one and that the copper is just a break-in thing... I'd also like to see analysis done on someone's bike who does a lot of wheelies... Curiuos as to what that does to engine metals... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB4XX Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I just changed my oil Tuesday with 8500 miles Mike. I had the MX4T Full Syn in it and the only reason I hadnt changed it was it had only been in there for two months. I usually change every 3-4k. I should turn the magic 40k on mine in a few days. Where's the guy who said these engines blow up at 40k? :twisted: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texhoss Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Mike is the oil pick up line for oil in the pan in the front or rear of the oil pan? That could cause less oil for the engine with long wheelies. I think GSXers can have that problem. I don't know about our birds? Texhoss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianmacza Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I read this thread and went straight out and checked my oil levels... 9500km since the last filter/oil change and the oil still looks gold - its a full synth Castrol (dunno the version but it was DAMN expensive) and it is still at or slightly above the full level. Has anyone got wisdom as to how long it takes to cloud oil on an XX? My old CB900FB gives me gungy black stuff in about 3000km from a change... :dunce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbird Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Mike , I was thinking that the Birds had a tipover shutdown on the motor, after a certain angle on the bike with a rider going down. I was thinking they were set up like the ST 1100. Bank angle sensor is FI models only, IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 eh... either way, I only paid $2600 for the thing, so if the engine doesn't last more than 100k, I won't be too upset about it... I can buy a used engine for less than the difference between what I paid for this bike and what another one would cost anyway... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texhoss Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Mike, you got a great buy on the bike! How much does the Amsoil cost a quart. Are you going to change the next 2 changes at 3000 miles. What do you think the higher copper content is from? The thought of leaving any oil in for 9000 miles, is new to me. I don't know that much of the Amsoil Oil products. What little I have heard is good. What did it cost to have the oil analized(SP) ? Texhoss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Mike, you got a great buy on the bike! How much does the Amsoil cost a quart. Are you going to change the next 2 changes at 3000 miles. What do you think the higher copper content is from?The thought of leaving any oil in for 9000 miles, is new to me. I don't know that much of the Amsoil Oil products. What little I have heard is good. What did it cost to have the oil analized(SP) ? Texhoss I am going to change the next 2 at 3k and see what we see... The analysis is $20 for the standard, and $30 to also know the TBN (Total Base Number... this is to see if the additives in the oil are still working)... Amsoil, by the time it gets shipped to me is about the same $8/qt as the MX4T stuff that I'm using right now (wanted to get it changed and didn't have time to wait for shipping)... Pretty much any "real" synthetic can be run twice reccomended oil change interval... The reccomended oil change interval on the 'bird is 8000 miles anyway, so I think 10k isn't too bad for synthetic... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Krypt Keeper Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I change my oil every 2500 to 3000 miles.. Why? Cause I get bored way to often, and when I ride my bike in the mountains she gets ridden :twisted: Do I worry about my oil breaking down or failing? No Do I worry about my bikes motor failing? Hell no its Honda Do I ride my bike like a monkey fucking a football? You bet your sweet ass. 8) Do I abuse my bike? No more than shes begs for more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted October 21, 2005 Author Share Posted October 21, 2005 Actually, the only reason I'm doing it is, because I know it's been laid down before and mine's the only one that I've ever yeard of that goes through oil, albeit very little by passenger car standards... This is also the reason I'm going to check the valves this winter... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganDonor Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 What are you running for a filter? How much of these metals can be expected to get filtered out by a high end filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar50racer Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 Love Amsoil, run it for 10k and the tranny shifts great. My first motor has 73k on it before it got ran without oil and aside from the number 1 rod bearing everything else looked great. BTW I rode a gozillion wheelies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted October 22, 2005 Author Share Posted October 22, 2005 I have just been running the Honda filters... Well, I take that back... I ran a K&N oil filter (re-badged Bosch or Mobil 1, I don't remember which, either way, good shit) for the first half of this oil, and a Honda filter for the second half... Thanks for the info about the wheelies Paully... I can rule that out then... Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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