Fonzie Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Tried starting the Bird yesterday to run some errands. Hasn't been started in about week & half. She fires first couple times, but won't stay running. Give her more choke........now she won't fire at all. Try tweaking the throttle a few times (carby), can smell the gas but still just turning over, no fire anymore. Now I smell gas, so let her sit for a few in case she's flooded. Try again......still just turning. Try holding throttle all the way open & starting........still just firing. Battery eventually getting low. Put her on the trickle charger before I left for work yesterday afternoon. Tried starting her again this morning when I got home after being on charger for about 20 hrs. Same processes & results.........no fire at all now, just turning over & over & over & over........ Any advice...........She's never acted like this before. ALWAYS started right away. Weather is starting to get down in 40's at night here in Ohio. She's starting to act like my Yamaha I just sold!!!! :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquis Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 How old is the battery? Could be it's not getting charged anymore. I would put a meter on it and make sure it has the full voltage needed to turn the engine over. If that's not the problem, see if you are getting any spark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matey_peeps Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Sounds to me like ya done fouled the plugs homie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVLXX Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Sounds like you've washed your plug... Sometimes when you REALLY FLOOD you're motor, your plug can become so coverd in gas that some of the burnt Soot and junk will wash down off of you insulator and on to the electrodes, Causing a horriably fuolled plug. That just won't fire Hot enough to do anything.... I have even seen this scenario on a couple of FI cars before... In almost all of the cases, the plugs had to be pulled and dried... with a torch. Or - You can try jump starting the thing off of your car battery, but you have to be very carefull. Step 1, contect jumper cables, and leave the car or truck off. Step 2, then hold the throttle on the bike wide open, choke off, and crack for 10-15 seconds and stop. wait 2-3 minutes.... for your starter to cool down, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, you don't want to cook your starter and have to replace it as well. Step 3, repeat that proceedure 3 times... Step 4, after you have let your starter cool down again... and you might want to give it a couple extra minutes. Try starting it Normally. With any luck you should have cleared the cylinders and dried the plugs with the Hotter spark from the car battery. If this doesn't work... Pull the plugs, Clean, reinstall. Of coarse this is also assumeing that you don't have any sticky float bowls. :wink: You might want to double check that one first and then go through the above steps. GoodLuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneXX Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Full choke no throttle hit the starter. Slowly open the choke the first half of the choke lever is fast idle. As the idle speeds up open up the coke more. Of course this is how my carbed bike cold starts YMMV. Also this is what you will do after cleaning your plugs :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John01XX Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I would verify if there is spark at all. I had a similar problem happen to me at NEXXT. Never done it before and discovered that I had a bad connection between my PC2 and the ECM. Remove seat and unplug and replug up ECM connectors is what fixed mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcrich Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I would verify if there is spark at all.I had a similar problem happen to me at NEXXT. Never done it before and discovered that I had a bad connection between my PC2 and the ECM. Remove seat and unplug and replug up ECM connectors is what fixed mine. Not sure that would help him, John, it's a carbed bike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickrad Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I NEVER use the choke, even in the dead of winter. Starts everytime! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cossi Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I NEVER use the choke, even in the dead of winter. Starts everytime! This probably helps keep your bike a little warmer than most don'tcha think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBBXX Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I NEVER use the choke, even in the dead of winter. Starts everytime! No Shit. I think you are an anomaly for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartonmd Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 I NEVER use the choke, even in the dead of winter. Starts everytime! No Shit. I think you are an anomaly for sure. Exactly, mine doesn't run right starting up the first time of the day, or after work unless I have the choked on if it's below 80 degrees outside... you must be pretty rich at idle? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickrad Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 No Shit. No shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonzie Posted October 1, 2005 Author Share Posted October 1, 2005 Full choke no throttle hit the starter. Slowly open the choke the first half of the choke lever is fast idle. As the idle speeds up open up the coke more. Of course this is how my carbed bike cold starts YMMV. Also this is what you will do after cleaning your plugs :wink: OK Brett........your reply confuses me. First you say Full choke, then next sentence you say slowly open the choke?? I've tried both ways....neither is working. Battery is brand new.......just put in back in May. Judging by the lights & the sound it's making while 1st turning over, I think it's charging OK, until I start to wear it down from cranking on it. Haven't put the m/m on it though to get an actual reading. Yes, it's a '98......carbed. Not sure what the PC2 & ECM are, or where they're located. Haven't needed to buy a manual before this. Speaking of which.........where are the spark plugs located...under the tank? And if so, does our tank hinge up from the front towards the seat, like my buddy says his does (Busa)? Also........Bear in mind I've got the 4 into 1 2 Bros. exhaust and the carbs have supposedly been jetted. Not sure if that affects anything or the advice you may give me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneXX Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 If the carbs were jetted properly it should start even easier than stock. I knew the choke thing would confuse you when you push the choke lever down ( towards you) that closes the choke flaps on the carbs and partially opens the throttle plates. Restricting air causing a fuel rich condition, This is full choke. As you push the lever forward it slowly opens these flaps, at around midway the flaps are wide open. The choke lnkage also presses on your throttle linkage giving you fast idle. So at midway you have open choke and fast idle. I let mine idle at around 2,000 rpm for a couple of minutes until it idles on it's own with the choke lever all the way forward. Then I raise hell. Remember I have an 82 cb900c that has got to be the most cold natured son of bitch ever built. If you can start one of those in 30 degree weather you can start anything, hell if you can start it at 90 deg. you're doing good :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 If you are going to do your own work it's time for a manual. The plugs sound fouled to me. The tank does not hinge, you remove it, then the airbox, then the plugs. See if you can find a plug cleaner, but you may need new plugs. (what's the mileage? might be time anyway) Once you get her running again it's time to check the choke engagement and I would pull the carbs and check on the jet kit installation. See how far the pilot screws are open. For airborne900c: The XX (and I think all modern CV carbed bikes) uses an enrichener choke, it opens a valve and gives more fuel, not a choke plate, it also does not turn up the ilde through a linkage. That's how carbed cars work. On your 82 CB900C it sounds like it's time to play with it's pilot screws. On my XX on the coldest mornings I use the choke, no gas, once it starts I can turn off the choke within 30 seconds. 50 degrees and up I can start it no choke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airborneXX Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 If you are going to do your own work it's time for a manual.The plugs sound fouled to me. The tank does not hinge, you remove it, then the airbox, then the plugs. See if you can find a plug cleaner, but you may need new plugs. (what's the mileage? might be time anyway) Once you get her running again it's time to check the choke engagement and I would pull the carbs and check on the jet kit installation. See how far the pilot screws are open. For airborne900c: The XX (and I think all modern CV carbed bikes) uses an enrichener choke, it opens a valve and gives more fuel, not a choke plate, it also does not turn up the ilde through a linkage. That's how carbed cars work. On your 82 CB900C it sounds like it's time to play with it's pilot screws. On my XX on the coldest mornings I use the choke, no gas, once it starts I can turn off the choke within 30 seconds. 50 degrees and up I can start it no choke. Thanks Pete, I haven't had the carbs off the XX yet I was going by what's on the older Hondas. I've already opened up the pilots and shimmed the needles on my 900c. It helped a bit in warm weather we'll have to see what winter brings. Nexxt step is replacing the pilot jets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonzie Posted October 1, 2005 Author Share Posted October 1, 2005 The plugs sound fouled to me.The tank does not hinge, you remove it, then the airbox, then the plugs. See if you can find a plug cleaner, but you may need new plugs. (what's the mileage? might be time anyway) Let me 1st start by thanking all of you for your responses.....I appreciate the help/advice! Bike is just shy of 18,000 miles. Not sure what kind of maintenance was done on her prior to me. Couple of ????'s.......1st...enough of you have said fouled/bad plugs that I believe you may be right. My question though is why all the sudden. Wouldn't they gradually start acting up & being hard to start, rather than all of the sudden? 2nd.....About taking the tank off. Anything special I need to know, or pretty straightforward, just unbolting & lifting? I have the bad tendency of accidentally breaking things because I try to muscle them when I should instead be finessing. I know this will open a whole can of worms :roll: , but is there a concesus out there about which plug(s) work best with this bike? I seem to remember a poll when I first found you guys a few months ago on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman_40 Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Plugs can get fowled easy when you are trying to start the bike and it gets flooded. That's what sounds like happened. Basiclly you get a bunch of gas on them and it washes the carbon onto the tips of the plugs causing more resistance making it hard to fire. Gas tank is easy(at least on FI birds) take the bolts out of the back lift the back of the tank up, slide it back towards you, put some rags where the seat would be and tilt the front of the tank upwards and rest the back on the rags, makes easy access to air box. Take the air box off and should allow relitively easy access to the plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurricane Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Put some ISO HEAT in the fuel tank with fresh gasoline. It's the red bottle, not the yelow one. Sounds like some water is in the tank. Most likely from condensation with heating and cooling. It's common Go for a bit of a ride to mix through the fuel system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobicus Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 Note that when pulling the tank, the idea is to lift it up, back, and out of the way, but not disconnect all the lines. You should be able to sit it up on end on a few rags so the paint doesn't get scratched. Warchild has put together some eXXcellent instructions for changing spark plugs at http://www.superblackbird.com/spark1.cfm. Follow them, and you'll be FINE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonzie Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 Most likely from condensation with heating and cooling. It's common I thought about that too..........common problem with the old bike.....but the tank is just below full.....thought maybe I could rule that out then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonzie Posted October 14, 2005 Author Share Posted October 14, 2005 OK..........have this weekend off, so hoping to tackle changing the plugs finally, especially since this weekend is supposed to be nice & haven't gotten to ride bike in about a month. Anyway.....was just reading Arctic Flipper's similar post. Someone mentioned not to gap with conventional gapper. This leads into my question of "What is the proper gap I need"??? Thanx guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obby Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Yeah, getting the tank off or up is easy, but don't forget to pull out those side panels first (speaking from experience :oops: )... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beondwacko Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Fonzie , A lot of guys may frown on this one ( tip ) but it was the only thing that would get my old CB1100F running in the cold of winter. My bike was jetted with a stage 1 jet kit , and when it was cold ( 40 or lower ) and I had not started it in a few days , that sumbitch would never fire. I used to use a propane torch to get it to fire up. I would literally feed the bike propane with 1/2 choke , and I would be able to get it running. I don't really recomend you doing this unless you are comfortable with the idea, but Hence the screen name .......................... Also , when you park the bike, and don't plan on using it for a little while and that being that your bike is carbed, turn off the fuel petcock. If you have a lazy needle in one of the carbs , that will flood the motor over time as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in PA Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 PROPANE?! :shock: If you try that on the XX you'll have a pocket of propane gas under the fairing then you know what's next. I'd leave the gap alone on the plugs. Do you have new ones on hand already? How do you plan to clean them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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